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| TimFox:
Recently, my undergraduate college replaced their traditional central boiler with a heat pump, heat-sunk to a subterranean layer of ground water at approximately 13o C in the middle of the local seasonal temperature range (roughly -30o C to +35o C, a continental climate in southern Minnesota). I'm not sure how much they use this for summer cooling. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: Marco on February 21, 2023, 04:37:32 pm ---What is almost always an easy retrofit are Fan Coil Units, with the added advantage that they give you cooling too. I'm amazed no installers are specializing in this, it's such a perfect package. --- End quote --- Fan noise? Mechanical parts that can fail? I also have serious doubts about the ability of installers of heating systems to be able to understand how to install these units properly. Look at the huge amount of aftermarket devices you can buy for underfloor heating to -for example- stop the pump when the heating is off. Something simple like that should come standard with any underfloor heating system. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 21, 2023, 04:10:48 pm ---Not true. optimum working temperature is different between different systems - heat pumps don't produce the higher temperatures needed to overcome poor insulation. Replacing a traditional pumped water/gas CH system with HP usually requires radiators to be up-sized to get the same output at a lower temperature drop. --- End quote --- You only need higher temperatures to overcome high heat losses if you use convection alone. A little fanning goes a long way. |
| Marco:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 21, 2023, 04:56:09 pm ---Fan noise? Mechanical parts that can fail? --- End quote --- Sure, it has its downsides. The fact it comes with cooling too is a huge upside though. Lots of people using splits for heating/cooling too. --- Quote ---I also have serious doubts about the ability of installers of heating systems to be able to understand how to install these units properly. --- End quote --- That's why I said specialise. If one install in a hundred has FCUs, sure it will be a mess. If they do 5 in a week, it shouldn't take them too long to find out how to prevent complaints and return visits. |
| Ice-Tea:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 21, 2023, 04:13:36 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 04:13:00 pm --- --- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on February 21, 2023, 04:10:48 pm --- --- Quote from: tszaboo on February 21, 2023, 03:57:36 pm --- --- Quote from: tom66 on February 21, 2023, 03:48:28 pm ---Good diagram. But, does it account for the difficulty in insulating UK homes to support heat pumps? Having embarked upon the process of insulating our 1930's detached home, it is definitely not a trivial process usually requiring bespoke techniques for each property. --- End quote --- Heat is heat. There is no difference for heat pump heat or heat from a boiler or gas. --- End quote --- Not true. optimum working temperature is different between different systems - heat pumps don't produce the higher temperatures needed to overcome poor insulation. Replacing a traditional pumped water/gas CH system with HP usually requires radiators to be up-sized to get the same output at a lower temperature drop. --- End quote --- If it works for Norway, there is really no reason why it wouldn't work for the UK or here. --- End quote --- And the diagram is horribly optimistic where it comes to the efficiency. --- End quote --- Why??? A well insulated house allows for a SCOP of 4.5 or so. Badly insulated houses obviously need to get moving on improving that but would still allows for a 3+ SCOP (with fan trays or whatever). --- Quote --- At low temperatures the heat pumps will have to go into resistive heating mode requiring the original 70GW. --- End quote --- I think perhaps you're working with an outdated set of information on heatpumps. --- Quote ---And what happens if the turbines don't spin? --- End quote --- Well, that's an interesting question for any discussion on renewables but for fun and giggles: with a COP of 4 you'd still only burn half the gas in an electricity plant compared to your house boiler. --- Quote ---Bottom line: the diagram is made by a complete idiot. --- End quote --- In that case a lot of people are complete idiots because it pretty much represents the consensus amongst energy scientists. Yes, putting the windmills as energy source in the picture is a bit rosy but that doesn't change the bottom line. |
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