General > General Technical Chat

EV-based road transportation is not viable

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tom66:
It's pretty simple, at the very least properties should be built to support heatpump retrofit, so large radiators or underfloor heating, hot water tank instead of a combi boiler, no electric showers, passive-haus class insulation with room vents etc.  Yet I've looked around 1-2 year old properties and they often don't meet these standards.

If you do it right, you can heat a house (in UK climates, typical winter day) with less than 500W - that's not one room, that's the whole bloody house.

We do need more homes (complex issue though) but no point putting up homes that are leaky and draughty.

themadhippy:
Have developers spending money on insulation and doing a decent job instead of slipping a fraction of  the amount to there political chums to keep things as they are,never gonna happen.

Someone:

--- Quote from: karpouzi9 on February 21, 2023, 10:23:51 pm ---crazy, I didn't realize the title of this thread was "heat pumps in houses are not viable"

--- End quote ---
We had that:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/new-world-of-electrical-power-generation/?all
Same people, same completely misleading "arguments" that they cant possibly use heat pumps because:
older heat pumps didn't have enough performance at low temperatures (no longer true for modern units)
massive invested capital in complex Rube Goldberg heating systems, insisting on retaining that system like for like (refusing to trade any benefits against losses in function, stick to your horse and cart and stop complaining....)

tszaboo:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 21, 2023, 07:54:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 21, 2023, 07:28:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 21, 2023, 07:00:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: Ice-Tea on February 21, 2023, 06:36:29 pm ---So, uhm, that's your argument then? You disregard any data that doesn't fit your narrative and call all those that run with it idiots?  :o

--- End quote ---
There is no narrative and there is no argument. Just the fact that heatpumps are not economic to run when it is cold. This is obviously clear from looking at specifications from actual heatpumps. There is no need for yet another fantasy number that is invented to compare heatpumps because it says nothing about the suitability of heatpump for a less insulated home.

--- End quote ---

But.... it does. Nobody is arguing that the efficiency of a heatpump goes down when temperature does. That's why you have the SCOP value. It tells you what your seasonal efficiency will be. And it does say something about suitability for less isolated houses as you typically have this value for 35C and 55C feed temperatures. And if 55C doesn't suffise: get crackin' on isolating your barn, please.

--- End quote ---
If you look at what SCOP actually means, you'll notice it is not a number that tells you something about the suitability of a unit. Seasonal efficiency doesn't mean that a unit will be able to heat a home when it is cold. The COP might be too low and SCOP doesn't tell you that at all.

Also, you don't need high water temperatures perse. It is relatively easy to retrofit an existing home with underfloor heating (been there, done that) which doesn't need high water temperatures at all.

--- End quote ---


Why do you think this is happening? Do you think that this is a huge mistake that half the households are doing in these countries? I give you an even better idea. I have district heating, coming from a coal power plant, as I understand it's scheduled to be shut down. And the company maffia organization, Ennaturlijk, was doing absolutely nothing to replace this with something more environmentally friendly. While district heating is the perfect example, with one plant, doing water to water heatpumping, can do enormous energy savings for tens of thousands of households.
But I can already see the people protesting that "it will freeze the fishes" or some other reason, and it's too cold here (clearly not).

tautech:
New flash in NZ last few days is that our dairy giant Fonterra is partnering with MAN to develop electric heatpump boilers to cease reliance on coal.
https://www.fonterra.com/nz/en/our-stories/media/fonterra-and-man-energy-solutions-enter-into-major-partnership.html

Who says cant ?

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