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| Marco:
So even if you cover every wall ceiling and floor in the house with hydronic heating and it's blasting 100 kW of heating into the house with 40 degrees water temperature and a huge amount of flow, somehow the power poofs outside because the source is a heatpump? Insulation and the thermal resistance between water and the room air are entirely orthogonal. If by some fluke of design the former is shit, but the latter is already superb (floor heating with the pipes just below a thin laminate floor, for instance) it just means you need a larger heatpump. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: Marco on February 23, 2023, 09:40:00 pm ---So even if you cover every wall ceiling and floor in the house with hydronic heating and it's blasting 100 kW of heating into the house with 40 degrees water temperature and a huge amount of flow, somehow the power poofs outside because the source is a heatpump? Insulation and the thermal resistance between water and the room air are entirely orthogonal. If by some fluke of design the former is shit, but the latter is already superb (floor heating with the pipes just below a thin laminate floor, for instance) it just means you need a larger heatpump. --- End quote --- You are throwing things together that aren't related at all. It doesn't matter how you put the heat into a home; that is a question to be answered once you know how much energy you need and determined a heatpump is financially viable. There are several other options compared to retrofitting existing radiators as well. Like combining air-to-air heatpump (aka airconditioning) with an existing boiler + radiators. This is relatively easy & cheap to retrofit in most homes. Added bonus is cooling as well. If you need a lot of energy then the costs for the energy will be high. Especially since at low COP the heat from electricity will cost way more compared to gas, you are spending a lot more money during cold days with a heat-pump only solution. A bigger heatpump will also cost more to buy so you'll be throwing any chance of a positive ROI out of the window. Again: first step is to investigate the insulation of a home to determine required energy input (like walk before trying to run). |
| Marco:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 23, 2023, 11:20:20 pm ---If you need a lot of energy then the costs for the energy will be high. Especially since at low COP the heat from electricity will cost way more compared to gas, you are spending a lot more money during cold days with a heat-pump only solution. A bigger heatpump will also cost more to buy so you'll be throwing any chance of a positive ROI out of the window. Again: first step is to investigate the insulation of a home to determine required energy input (like walk before trying to run). --- End quote --- The cost of larger systems doesn't grow that fast. Sure the subsidy effect falls off, but the labour cost stay the same ... until you get to really large systems, linear is a good enough approximation. So if there is ROI to be had at a given ratio of electricity/gas use, the size of the system doesn't matter, only the ratio of electricity/gas matters. The ratio of electricity/gas use is determined not by insulation, but by heating system thermal resistance. Insulation is thus not the determining factor. |
| tggzzz:
To reduce the recenr volume of hot air (ho ho) and get back to BEV charge points, here's my local council's assessment and predictions... As you can see, the predictions for charging points 2030 are * populated areas: a significant shortfall, principally urban and suburban but also rural areas. N.B. those area are not the densely populated city areas I have previously used as illustrations; these areas are easier :( * sparsely populated areas: a moderate shortfall (pale yellow areas), principally low-lying farmland with lots of drainage ditches That' s not a surprise, and I expect it to be mirrored across the country. The council favours funding public charging points by a concession model, presumably since there would be no capital outlay. There is no indication of the feasibility nor any commercial terms. On-street charging will be required, and they have an objective to investigate the technology. Translation: don't know cost and feasibility. FFI read the full report https://n-somerset.inconsult.uk/gf2.ti/-/1473250/159997125.1/PDF/-/NSC%20Formatted%20EV%20Strategy%20Exec%20Summary%20Numbered.pdf |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 24, 2023, 10:07:09 am ---On-street charging will be required, and they have an objective to investigate the technology. Translation: don't know cost and feasibility. --- End quote --- Interesting that the complexity of lamppost charging is medium, rather than low. I guess that is due to heaver cables being required along the whole street. Does anyone know what "gullies (cable channels)" means in this context? It sounds like a component of a solution, rather than a complete one. |
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