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EV-based road transportation is not viable

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tom66:
Gullies refers to something like the Oxford pilot project: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/case-study/oxgul-e/  (though this has been done in a few areas of the UK now, both arranged by LA's and arranged by a few owners privately by planning request, it's basically the same as getting a dropped curb.)

It requires you to be able to park outside (or reasonably near) to your home on the street, so either neighbourly cooperation is required, or more likely allocated street parking will become more common.

Most lamp-posts hang off the street ring main and even in the newer estate I lived in, were fused with a 20A fuse, suggesting a capacity of at least 16A for the incomer.  Obviously the street itself needs to have enough capacity but that's an issue either way you charge cars.  LED streetlamps free up some capacity but it's my understanding that this capacity always existed even with SOx lamps because those were only a few hundred watts.  As to why so much capacity was designed in, I have no idea. 

Overall that study seems to be a fair assessment of the challenge - certainly not impossible to accommodate EV's on UK streets but work needs to be done (and importantly, the work needs to start 'now' to accommodate EV's becoming the only new car by 2030).

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: coppice on February 24, 2023, 03:38:31 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 24, 2023, 10:07:09 am ---On-street charging will be required, and they have an objective to investigate the technology. Translation: don't know cost and feasibility.


--- End quote ---
Interesting that the complexity of lamppost charging is medium, rather than low. I guess that is due to heaver cables being required along the whole street.

--- End quote ---

Others are the need to have a payment device in each lamppost, and what happens to the 75%+ of cars that aren't next to a lamp post. Rationale: my suburban street has ~8 cars between two lamp posts, and hope that 2 cars can simultaneously charge from each lamp post.


--- Quote ---Does anyone know what "gullies (cable channels)" means in this context? It sounds like a component of a solution, rather than a complete one.

--- End quote ---

Gullies are things that

* will get blocked with detritus and vegetation
* will channel rainwater into some properties. My property is downhill from the road, and the road (but not the properties!) has a low risk of flash flooding. There are many others in my village, since it it on a hll

--- Quote from: tom66 on February 24, 2023, 03:45:32 pm ---Gullies refers to something like the Oxford pilot project: https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/case-study/oxgul-e/  (though this has been done in a few areas of the UK now, both arranged by LA's and arranged by a few owners privately by planning request, it's basically the same as getting a dropped curb.)

It requires you to be able to park outside (or reasonably near) to your home on the street, so either neighbourly cooperation is required, or more likely allocated street parking will become more common.

--- End quote ---

What kind of cooperation are you thinking of?

I'm not going to allow someone from down the road to charge their vehicle with my electricity.

Even in my suburban street there is around zero chance that I would be able to park outside my house. Too often I've had to chase around trying to find who is blocking my drive and preventing me from getting out. And this is, by all accounts, a good and desireable neighbourhood.

(Good luck where my daughter used to live in a capital city; if you put scrap metal on the pavement you wouldn't be done for littering - since the "metal fairies" always disappeared it within a few hours :) Copper cables would disappear equally fast :( )


--- Quote ---Overall that study seems to be a fair assessment of the challenge - certainly not impossible to accommodate EV's on UK streets but work needs to be done (and importantly, the work needs to start 'now' to accommodate EV's becoming the only new car by 2030).

--- End quote ---

I think "assessment" is too strong a word; "summary" would be appropriate.

tom66:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 24, 2023, 04:41:19 pm ---What kind of cooperation are you thinking of?

I'm not going to allow someone from down the road to charge their vehicle with my electricity.

Even in my suburban street there is around zero chance that I would be able to park outside my house. Too often I've had to chase around trying to find who is blocking my drive and preventing me from getting out. And this is, by all accounts, a good and desireable neighbourhood.

(Good luck where my daughter used to live in a capital city; if you put scrap metal on the pavement you wouldn't be done for littering - since the "metal fairies" always disappeared it within a few hours :) Copper cables would disappear equally fast :( )
--- End quote ---

The cooperation aspect is being able to park outside of your home if you wanted to use a cable gulley setup.  This is possible in some areas, for instance my street it seems that most people park in the same space even if they don't have a driveway.  Other streets will be more difficult.  So they will either have allocated parking (this space is for No. 32) or will need other solutions (pop up charging, lamp post charging, standard charging posts etc.)

There will not be one solution appropriate to all areas, that's guaranteed.

We have a few of these chargers now around me - pity they're a bit ugly.
https://transportandenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/LibertyCharge_Wandsworth_GatwickRoad_002-scaled.jpg

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: tom66 on February 24, 2023, 05:03:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 24, 2023, 04:41:19 pm ---What kind of cooperation are you thinking of?

I'm not going to allow someone from down the road to charge their vehicle with my electricity.

Even in my suburban street there is around zero chance that I would be able to park outside my house. Too often I've had to chase around trying to find who is blocking my drive and preventing me from getting out. And this is, by all accounts, a good and desireable neighbourhood.

(Good luck where my daughter used to live in a capital city; if you put scrap metal on the pavement you wouldn't be done for littering - since the "metal fairies" always disappeared it within a few hours :) Copper cables would disappear equally fast :( )
--- End quote ---

The cooperation aspect is being able to park outside of your home if you wanted to use a cable gulley setup.  This is possible in some areas, for instance my street it seems that most people park in the same space even if they don't have a driveway.  Other streets will be more difficult.  So they will either have allocated parking (this space is for No. 32) or will need other solutions (pop up charging, lamp post charging, standard charging posts etc.)

There will not be one solution appropriate to all areas, that's guaranteed.

--- End quote ---

Based on what I can see inside cities and in the suburbs...

If there is enough space for such cooperation to be practical, there won't be much need for on-screen charging. That's not a problem.

But the inverse is also true: on-screen charging will be required where there is little space. And it will be difficult to arrange cooperation there, so that will be a big and more-or-less unsolvable problem.

coppice:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 24, 2023, 04:41:19 pm ---Even in my suburban street there is around zero chance that I would be able to park outside my house. Too often I've had to chase around trying to find who is blocking my drive and preventing me from getting out. And this is, by all accounts, a good and desirable neighbourhood.

--- End quote ---
There are plenty of suburban UK city areas where people park within a couple of metres of the same spot each day There are also plenty where the last part of any journey home is filled with dread, not always that of what horrors the family has in store for you. One size will never fit all with parking and charging issues.

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