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| EV-based road transportation is not viable |
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| PlainName:
--- Quote ---The inconvenient truth is that tons of CO2 are thrown into the atmosphere before an EV's first charge. --- End quote --- This is a bit orange and apples, isn't it? Because: --- Quote --- However, a casual, climate-concerned driver with low annual mileage might be better off keeping their current VW Golf instead of trading it for a Chinese-made Tesla Model 3 --- End quote --- This is the only argument that makes sense for EV being similarly polluting to ICE: taking account of the manufacturing cost for EV where there is none at all for ICE. Of course that's going to be in ICE favour! In reality we should be looking at replacements - where you go to get a new car to replace the one you have, the choice is EV or ICE, and then EV wins every time. That's not an argument not to get an EV. It's an argument not to replace your existing motor, that's all. |
| vad:
My point was: the manufacturing of a BEV causes much greater CO2 pollution than the manufacturing of an ICE vehicle because of the battery. Whether a casual driver replaces an old vehicle or chooses between a BEV and a brand new greenish-green ICE that meets Euro 7 emissions standards, there is always a mileage threshold. If you drive under that mileage, you would be contributing more to CO2 pollution. The exact value of the threshold depends on a myriad of factors. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on January 23, 2024, 06:38:34 pm ---A lot of German "coal" is actually brown lignite, an especially polluting source. --- End quote --- If you are capturing the entire flue output for CCS, won't all those nasties be captured too? |
| tom66:
--- Quote from: vad on January 23, 2024, 06:59:45 pm ---My point was: the manufacturing of a BEV causes much greater CO2 pollution than the manufacturing of an ICE vehicle because of the battery. Whether a casual driver replaces an old vehicle or chooses between a BEV and a brand new greenish-green ICE that meets Euro 7 emissions standards, there is always a mileage threshold. If you drive under that mileage, you would be contributing more to CO2 pollution. The exact value of the threshold depends on a myriad of factors. --- End quote --- We've been here before. The emissions are typically "paid off" within about 30,000 - 50,000 miles, depending on the manufacturing location of the battery, the source of the electricity used to power the car and so on. The figure provided is a typical one from one of the many studies available. It is true you could create a scenario of say a 100kWh SUV driven 4000 miles a year powered by average electricity where an ICE possibly wins out if the car meets its maker within say 10 years (crash damage for example...) But the average use case will certainly be more negative in CO2 emissions than not which is why it is the case that EVs are promoted as a good alternative to ICE cars for the average person, if they can accommodate them. Remember most cars, EVs included, made today with reasonable maintenance should last at least 15 years, maybe more. So even if the first owner doesn't work out, the second or third owner might. --- Quote from: coppice on January 23, 2024, 07:41:09 pm --- --- Quote from: tggzzz on January 23, 2024, 06:38:34 pm ---A lot of German "coal" is actually brown lignite, an especially polluting source. --- End quote --- If you are capturing the entire flue output for CCS, won't all those nasties be captured too? --- End quote --- No. Most CCS systems work by using amine gas treatment which only works on CO2 and H2S. The flue itself isn't stored so you get other emissions still like NOx. |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: coppice on January 23, 2024, 07:41:09 pm --- --- Quote from: tggzzz on January 23, 2024, 06:38:34 pm ---A lot of German "coal" is actually brown lignite, an especially polluting source. --- End quote --- If you are capturing the entire flue output for CCS, won't all those nasties be captured too? --- End quote --- The Germans don't. Capturing CO2 consumes noticeable energy. The nasties would probably gunk up the pipes, in a way CO2 doesn't. Think coal/tobacco tar :) |
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