General > General Technical Chat

EV-based road transportation is not viable

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tom66:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 16, 2023, 09:54:46 pm ---A charger must have the ability to read a payment device, authenticate credit availibility, debit someone's account, and communicate that to the user.
--- End quote ---

Not necessarily with Plug and Charge which is something newer EVs should support.  (It should have been there from day-zero, but there are alternatives like an in-cable smart meter, as used by Ubitricity, that make the charging port very simple indeed.)

nctnico:

--- Quote from: rstofer on February 16, 2023, 10:15:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 16, 2023, 09:54:46 pm ---A charger must have the ability to read a payment device, authenticate credit availibility, debit someone's account, and communicate that to the user.

--- End quote ---

Gas pumps already do this and have for a long time.

--- End quote ---
Yes and no. EV charging stations typically don't accept debit or credit cards. OTOH every manned / unmanned gas pump does. For some reason companies that run EV chargers deemed it necessary to invent their own cards which are not interchangeable.

tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 16, 2023, 10:36:43 pm ---Yes and no. EV charging stations typically don't accept debit or credit cards. OTOH every manned / unmanned gas pump does. For some reason companies that run EV chargers deemed it necessary to invent their own cards which are not interchangeable.

--- End quote ---

Err... how many have you used?  Every new DC charger in the UK has to accept contactless payment, and a good majority of older ones do already.  (They don't require PINs so no keypad is needed, just a contactless reader.)  This also appears to the way the EU is going.  The vast majority don't bother with RFID cards any more because yeah, it is a hassle, they just work with mobile apps.  These apps vary from "dreadful" (BP Pulse, really, just best avoided) to "really good" (PodPoint).  Perhaps expecting an oil company to make good EV charging infrastructure is foolish.

The ideal outcome I would see for EV charging is it being an extension of your home electricity bill.  The electrons are all the same after all.  Just pay the service fee for the charger  (per kWh or maybe, for DC charging, a fixed fee)  and you get whatever rate your supplier negotiated for your usage.  And the service fees should be fixed to some reasonable rate covering normal wear and tear of the charging equipment.

Marco:

--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 16, 2023, 09:54:46 pm ---A charger must have the ability to read a payment device

--- End quote ---

At the point you're filling the entire country with chargers, it's far cheaper to just give people without a mobile phone one with a free sim, which can only be used to access a payment portal. App can have a bluetooth mode with an in-app reserve for when mobile data is down.

Regardless of any other aspect of the design, it will massively simplify the charger.


--- Quote ---Numbers please, e.g. voltages, currents, components, x/y/z dimensions.

--- End quote ---

Papers for existing prototype systems you can look up yourself.

Lets say a 4 plate system with plates 10x10cm. Then with 2 mm of 100x relative permittivity insulator the series capacitance would be around 2 nF. At 100 kHz that's an impedance of 5k. Lets assume simple impedance matched resistive load to get some ballpark figure, 1800V RMS required for 3 kW. Ballpark doable with a high permittivity insulator, without it not so much.

mikeselectricstuff:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 16, 2023, 10:36:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: rstofer on February 16, 2023, 10:15:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 16, 2023, 09:54:46 pm ---A charger must have the ability to read a payment device, authenticate credit availibility, debit someone's account, and communicate that to the user.

--- End quote ---

Gas pumps already do this and have for a long time.

--- End quote ---
Yes and no. EV charging stations typically don't accept debit or credit cards. OTOH every manned / unmanned gas pump does. For some reason companies that run EV chargers deemed it necessary to invent their own cards which are not interchangeable.

--- End quote ---
Rapid chargers mostly do these days. AC chargers not usually, as the cost is disproportionate.

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