General > General Technical Chat

EV-based road transportation is not viable

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tom66:
The Type2 connector, as used for virtually every EV today, is robust.  You can run over it with a car and it will still work.  The connectors have weatherproof covers which keep water and most detritus out of them.  I've been using my home EV charger for almost 5 years now and there's no issue with the connectors on either end, and that gets cycled daily. 

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: tom66 on February 17, 2023, 09:28:29 am ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 17, 2023, 01:14:34 am ---In that case I find it remarkable (but not surprising) that you propose schemes that aren't practical in places that are familiar to you.
--- End quote ---

Nope.  I don't find it remarkable at all, because unlike you, I don't think the present day situation will stand still.  5-6 years ago the street I frequently visited in south London had no EV charging infrastructure.  (Just an ordinary suburban street in S. Norwood.)  Now it has 8 lamppost chargers, two 'normal' 7kW charging units (2 ports each), and there's a 100kW DC charger in the centre of the town. 

--- End quote ---

Ordinary suburban streets are ones that can be cherrypicked. That's insufficient for the many very difficult cases that I have outlined.

It is easy to helicopter in some prototype infrastructure. What matters is whether the infrastructure works and continues to work.

At the risk of introducing an analogy that will generate more heat than light... If you are going to go hiking and know you have to cross a river in a remote location, there's no point in claiming the hike will be possible because it is easy to walk until you get to the river. You have to be able to say how you will cross the river.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 17, 2023, 01:14:34 am ---You incorrectly presume I don't support EVs.
--- End quote ---

You're right, I did incorrectly presume that, because you don't bloody well make your opinion on the matter clear.  I'm happy that you've seen that we will need to electrify transport.

--- End quote ---

That opinion was irrelevant to the difficult points I raise. Analogy: if I ask how you are going to cross that river, the ability to walk to the river is irrelevant.


--- Quote ---
--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 17, 2023, 01:14:34 am ---I also get sick and tired of people finding it acceptable to leave 10% (?25%?, whatever) of people severely disadvantaged. I know "I'm all right Jack" libertarianism is fashionable, but I find it loathesome.
--- End quote ---

When have I said it's okay to leave X% of people behind? 

--- End quote ---

It is the consequence of your statements and those of politicians issuing blanket bans on ICEs. Claiming otherwise doesn't change the consequences.


--- Quote ---I said, let's solve the easy problems first, the people with driveways and off-road parking.  Almost everyone with a driveway could be driving an EV by next year if they wanted to, if the economics were there.  Then as these users drive the demand for street charging, because, they will want to use it now and then, that will follow pretty quickly and the economic case makes a lot more sense for private companies to install it.  Council budgets are too strapped dealing with social care in this country to be rolling out huge infrastructure projects, at least for the time being, so it will probably have to be private in some sense.  Most of London's street charging infrastructure is private.


--- Quote from: tggzzz on February 17, 2023, 01:14:34 am ---Powering it is less easy, e.g. in West London where the grid infrastructure is already insufficient for building new housing developments. Upgrading that distributed grid infrastructure is a major challenge, very expensive and very disruptive.

--- End quote ---

We may need to upgrade the local grid in some areas, but you keep pointing to the West London example as if it represents a problem that exists everywhere. 

--- End quote ---

West London is the existing and highly visible example that has been "solved" by political fiat and denial.

There will be many more all over th country.


--- Quote ---And upgrading a local grid isn't anything more than roadworks to change cables, and replacing transformers.  It's work, sure, and power might need to be out for a few hours here and there, but it's not an unworkable disaster like you claim. 

--- End quote ---

They are doing something similar on an A road in a suburb near me. It is causing major disruption and will last 2 years. Many complaints from all quarters, to no avail.

Your presumptions are grossly unrealistic.


--- Quote ---Whatever the matter you think there is with the local grid is, I don't see that being what holds EV's back.  It's definitely the charging infrastructure, the posts and charging units themselves, rather than the power distribution, and yes, it is difficult.

--- End quote ---

I look at what is currently happening, not what I might think ought to be the case.

Both issues have to be addressed and solved.

tggzzz:

--- Quote from: tom66 on February 17, 2023, 10:25:41 am ---The Type2 connector, as used for virtually every EV today, is robust.  You can run over it with a car and it will still work.  The connectors have weatherproof covers which keep water and most detritus out of them.  I've been using my home EV charger for almost 5 years now and there's no issue with the connectors on either end, and that gets cycled daily.

--- End quote ---

I have no reason to doubt that experience, and have never questioned it.

But it is in a very different location with very different constraints and requirements.

The other locations are far more challenging and will require very different solutions, just as internal 13A sockets are very different to those mounted outside.

tszaboo:

--- Quote from: tom66 on February 17, 2023, 10:25:41 am ---The Type2 connector, as used for virtually every EV today, is robust.  You can run over it with a car and it will still work.  The connectors have weatherproof covers which keep water and most detritus out of them.  I've been using my home EV charger for almost 5 years now and there's no issue with the connectors on either end, and that gets cycled daily.

--- End quote ---
I've seen it blow up a Tesla's internal charger 2x (tesla didn't fix it with warranty, owners fault of course), tripping an entire office's circuit breaker. Probably contact resistance went up.
I know this is anecdotal.

Ice-Tea:
Being able to charge at home is not a pass/fail for EV transportation. If you can charge at home, the viability of EV becomes a no-brainer. If you can't, most of the time there is an equally suitable solution available (or available in the nearby future). If you go to the office every day, those office will have charging points. I would assume you go to the supermarket from time to time. Perfect place for chargers. In the time it takes you to pick up some groceries, you can add 100km or so to the tank. Etc etc.

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