Expectations from a warranty replacement?

[Marck]

My ISP recently sent me a replacement VDSL modem under warranty because it keeps dropping the line speed.  This is after a visit from the NBN tech. New firmware and so on this process took quite some time. 

The problem i have with all this is that they have replaced the faulty unit with what they are calling refurbished.  It has scratches on the case and so forth. 

Would anyone consider this appropriate? Personally i don’t think this is quite good enough but i am not sure if i am just being a whinging baby about the whole thing or if i should have my nickers in a knot.

M

[mengfei]

Nope. unacceptable.
IF it's still under warranty, must get a new one!
Unless there's something in those 1000's fine lines in the contract 

[Zero999]

Did you purchase the modem, or was it supplied at no extra cost or for a deposit, when you signed up with your ISP?

If the latter is the case, you might find out it's not even your property, but your ISP's and you're just renting it from them, in which case they can supply you with whatever refurbished modem they like, so long as it works and they're able to provide the service they're contracted to.

If you bought the modem from them, then they should replace it with something decent. I'm not sure if it has to be new though, as your old modem would have already had some use.

[Marck]

Yeah it was purchased outright from them. I was a little bit reluctant to buy it but I travel quite a bit for work so I wanted a modem that they would support. So it would be easy to get any issues fixed if I couldn’t deal with it.

[sokoloff]

I have some level of perfectionism with other items in my life, but I view networking gear pretty strictly as functional/utility gear.

As long as it works, I’m not running a museum so it doesn’t need to be pristine. (I also seek out open box or returned items when the savings is more than a few percent.)

As above, if you’re renting it, then it’s even more strongly utility-only IMO.

[brabus]

I once received a hard disk drive as "brand bew warranty replacement": it came with a full Windows XP Installation and TONS of data of the previous user. E-Mail, Google account, credit Card, PayPal: all there and ready to use. No password at all.

[Simon]

Read your contract.

[jfiresto]

Did they send you the same model?

For a while, I was only getting about a year of service from each, brand new SDSL modem my previous internet provider used to send me, before it would stop sending. After the second, state of the art, do everything replacement had failed, I suggested, maybe we should try something older and simpler. So, they sent me a plain, somewhat beat up looking modem from a previous customer – which gave flawless service for the remaining years I had the line.

[thm_w]

Nope. unacceptable.
IF it's still under warranty, must get a new one!
Unless there's something in those 1000's fine lines in the contract 

Since when is that the case? Warranty replacement means you get a working replacement, it does not imply it is new or in perfect visual condition in any way.
There are sometimes policies, if you recently bought the part (say its less than 4 months old) then the warranty replacement should be a new part, which is fair.

If OP wants a better looking unit, the option is to return it again and hope you get something visually better.

I once received a hard disk drive as "brand bew warranty replacement": it came with a full Windows XP Installation and TONS of data of the previous user. E-Mail, Google account, credit Card, PayPal: all there and ready to use. No password at all.

yeah thats not acceptable, maybe stock got mixed up...

[james_s]

I would expect a warranty replacement to be in pristine condition or nearly so. I've bought refurbished gear before and it has always looked like the external housing is brand new so either they recondition it or put the used guts in a new housing.

At the very least I would expect it to be as nice as the one I had. I don't particularly care how my networking gear looks but I take good care of my belongings and would not be happy exchanging a defective but well cared for unit for a repaired but beat up one.

[thm_w]

At the very least I would expect it to be as nice as the one I had. I don't particularly care how my networking gear looks but I take good care of my belongings and would not be happy exchanging a defective but well cared for unit for a repaired but beat up one.

So how would you expect this to work then? Its not a realistic scenario.

"Hi please replace my modem, visual condition is 8/10, there are small scratches but no large scratches, plastic is lightly yellowed"
"OK let me spend an hour looking for one in that condition or better".

If its really bad just ask for another exchange.

[james_s]

At the very least I would expect it to be as nice as the one I had. I don't particularly care how my networking gear looks but I take good care of my belongings and would not be happy exchanging a defective but well cared for unit for a repaired but beat up one.

So how would you expect this to work then? Its not a realistic scenario.

"Hi please replace my modem, visual condition is 8/10, there are small scratches but no large scratches, plastic is lightly yellowed"
"OK let me spend an hour looking for one in that condition or better".

If its really bad just ask for another exchange.

Send a brand new one, or a refurbished one with new or as-new cosmetics. This isn't a rental, it's something that was purchased outright. On the rare occasions that I've returned something under warranty I've always received a replacement that was either brand new or indistinguishable from new. That's what "refurbished" means, otherwise it's just "used".

[thm_w]

Send a brand new one, or a refurbished one with new or as-new cosmetics. This isn't a rental, it's something that was purchased outright. On the rare occasions that I've returned something under warranty I've always received a replacement that was either brand new or indistinguishable from new. That's what "refurbished" means, otherwise it's just "used".

Nope.
You've probably only dealt with electronics where it did not make financial sense to repair the unit, therefor they just send out new parts. When equipment is functional but "looks used" it does not make moral or financial sense to throw it out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refurbishment_(electronics)

The main difference between "refurbished" and "used" products is that refurbished products have been tested and verified to function properly, and are thus free of defects, while "used" products may or may not be defective.

[rrinker]

 Just a few minutes ago, sort of went through this. My cable provider upped my speed again - for no extra charge (how DARE they! Such horrible money-grubbing Capitalist Pigs...oh, wait..). Of course, the cable modem I purchased some 6 years ago to stop paying their rental fee (paid for itself in the first year) is no longer compatible with the higher speed (my modem is DOCSIS 3.0, they are now using DOCSIS 3.1 for higher speeds), so I have to buy a new one. So I could buy a new one, or a certified refurbished one (not stating who refurbished it - but it was NOT the manufacturer) and save a whole $18. Nope, I'll take a new one, thank you. Refurb also only gets a 9- day warranty, new has a 2 year warranty.
 So unless there is some fine print in the warranty that says they can replace with clearly used equipment, I would complain. They are treating you like someone who is leasing, not an owner. If you were leasing, no issue, they are under no obligation to send out equipment other than that is can provide the service level you are paying for. If it works but some previous user let their kid draw circles on the case in a permanent marker, well, so be it. But since this is a purchased product under warranty, I think you deserve more. You got a fair quality used product, not a refurbished one. To me, a refurbished unit is one that is tested to prove the electronics all works, and it LOOKS like a new product, but may be missing the original packaging, manuals, and/or cables.

[james_s]

Nope.
You've probably only dealt with electronics where it did not make financial sense to repair the unit, therefor they just send out new parts. When equipment is functional but "looks used" it does not make moral or financial sense to throw it out.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refurbishment_(electronics)

The main difference between "refurbished" and "used" products is that refurbished products have been tested and verified to function properly, and are thus free of defects, while "used" products may or may not be defective.

These were laptops, a couple of Roombas and a Dyson cordless vacuum that I bought refurbished, they contained used parts but the external stuff was either brand new or like new and immaculately clean. You can't seriously be saying that a cable modem is worth repairing? They just found some other return that passed the functional test and gave it out. That is unacceptable, it's fine to lease it out, and it's fine to sell that as used but it's not "refurbished". Anything sold as refurbished may contain used parts but it needs to be in very good to excellent cosmetic condition too or people are gonna complain, and rightfully so.

I don't care what Wikipedia says, if you sell something used, you are obligated to test it out and verify that it works unless it is explicitly stated that it is untested or as-is. If I buy something "used" on ebay that says it works and it does not work, I can return it for a refund, if the seller does not offer that then ebay will refund my money. Used does not automatically imply as-is, it means it has been used and may have signs of normal wear & tear.

Clearly you don't care, but I do. If I return something for warranty work, I damn well better get something back that is either the same unit or one in better condition than the one I sent in or I'm gonna raise hell, otherwise it's little different than someone coming by and scruffing up my belongings then walking off and saying "sorry, it still works, so what!" I am certainly not the only person out there who feels this way.

[thm_w]

Just a few minutes ago, sort of went through this. My cable provider upped my speed again - for no extra charge (how DARE they! Such horrible money-grubbing Capitalist Pigs...oh, wait..). Of course, the cable modem I purchased some 6 years ago to stop paying their rental fee (paid for itself in the first year) is no longer compatible with the higher speed (my modem is DOCSIS 3.0, they are now using DOCSIS 3.1 for higher speeds), so I have to buy a new one. So I could buy a new one, or a certified refurbished one (not stating who refurbished it - but it was NOT the manufacturer) and save a whole $18. Nope, I'll take a new one, thank you. Refurb also only gets a 9- day warranty, new has a 2 year warranty.
 So unless there is some fine print in the warranty that says they can replace with clearly used equipment, I would complain. They are treating you like someone who is leasing, not an owner. If you were leasing, no issue, they are under no obligation to send out equipment other than that is can provide the service level you are paying for. If it works but some previous user let their kid draw circles on the case in a permanent marker, well, so be it. But since this is a purchased product under warranty, I think you deserve more. You got a fair quality used product, not a refurbished one. To me, a refurbished unit is one that is tested to prove the electronics all works, and it LOOKS like a new product, but may be missing the original packaging, manuals, and/or cables.

No, somehow you missed reading my post above explaining what a refurbished product is defined as.
There are also some differences when comparing: buying a refurbished part vs receiving a refurbished part as a warranty return. The first case has higher standards as you are paying money out of pocket, and some expectation of packaging is present.

Of course many cases it doesn't make sense to purchase refurbished if the warranty is only 9 days, so thats an obvious decision. Or in the case of Tek they offer a whole 5% discount on some of their refurbs  but at least it gets full warranty.

[james_s]

Wikipedia is not gospel, it says whatever someone decided to write in there, the quality of the articles varies widely and I doubt that particular topic has had a whole lot of review and update.

Whether paying out of pocket or warranty return it makes no difference. When I pay out of pocket for something part of what I'm paying for is the guarantee that the product will last at least as long as the warranty and that if it does not, that it will be repaired or replaced. That does not entitle the manufacture to take the item that I paid for that did not last, and give me an inferior beat up one to take its place. I take good care of my belongings and keep them in very good condition, I'm not going to just trade something I have for something that has been beat up.

[thm_w]

These were laptops, a couple of Roombas and a Dyson cordless vacuum that I bought refurbished, they contained used parts but the external stuff was either brand new or like new and immaculately clean. You can't seriously be saying that a cable modem is worth repairing? They just found some other return that passed the self test and gave it out. That is unacceptable, it's fine to lease it out, and it's fine to sell that as used but it's not "refurbished". Anything sold as refurbished may contain used parts but it needs to be in very good to excellent cosmetic condition too or people are gonna complain, and rightfully so.

I don't care what Wikipedia says, if you sell something used, you are obligated to test it out and verify that it works unless it is explicitly stated that it is untested or as-is. If I buy something "used" on ebay that says it works and it does not work, I can return it for a refund, if the seller does not offer that then ebay will refund my money. Used does not automatically imply as-is, it means it has been used and may have signs of normal wear & tear.

Clearly you don't care, but I do. If I return something for warranty work, I damn well better get something back that is either the same unit or one in better condition than the one I sent in or I'm gonna raise hell, otherwise it's little different than someone coming by and scruffing up my belongings then walking off and saying "sorry, it still works, so what!" I am certainly not the only person out there who feels this way.

Buying a refurbished product is a different ball game and related but not the same as what OP is discussing (receiving a warranty replacement). Not to mention each company has their own standards of what goes out the door, Dysons quality standards are very high.

You can't seriously be saying that a cable modem is worth repairing? They just found some other return that passed the self test and gave it out.

How is that not acceptable? They tested it and it works, so its viable as a warranty replacement.

Anything sold as refurbished may contain used parts but it needs to be in very good to excellent cosmetic condition too or people are gonna complain

OP did not buy a refurbished product.

Clearly you don't care, but I do. If I return something for warranty work, I damn well better get something back that is either the same unit or one in better condition than the one I sent in or I'm gonna raise hell, otherwise it's little different than someone coming by and scruffing up my belongings then walking off and saying "sorry, it still works, so what!" I am certainly not the only person out there who feels this way.

You might be whats known as a "problem customer", thankfully most of the customers I deal with only care that: they get a working product, and get it quickly.
Of course in some situations expectations change, for example a warranty replacement on a smartphone. But in this case, its not a phone, its a modem that sits under a desk somewhere. What matters is it works reliably.

[thm_w]

Wikipedia is not gospel, it says whatever someone decided to write in there, the quality of the articles varies widely and I doubt that particular topic has had a whole lot of review and update.

strawman, thats what I get for trying to save time linking to wiki 

https://www.ifixit.com/News/whats-the-difference-between-new-used-and-refurbished
"Refurbished units lie somewhere in between used and new. They may be units that were returned shortly after sale, or they may be used items that undergo maintenance before being resold."
https://www.techwalla.com/articles/the-difference-between-refurbished-remanufactured
"The basic difference between the two terms is that a refurbished item has been returned by a client or customer, cleaned up, tested, repackaged and made available for re-sale."
https://www.vecmar.com/corp_info/pr/Remanufactured_vs_Refurbished.htm
"The main difference between "refurbished" and "used" products is that refurbished products have been tested and verified to function properly, and are thus free of defects, while "used" products may or may not be defective."

[rrinker]

My typo - the refurb unit had a 90 day warranty, vs 2 years for new. No brainer, not when the difference in price was so small. And no, deliberately buying refurb is not the same as being given one as a warranty replacement for a brand new unit that fails in a manner that is covered by said warranty, I didn't say that. I have bought many things are refurbs, when it made sense to do so, and I know I'm not getting new, and I know that if it does need to be replaced under warranty, I'm going to get another refurb, not a brand new unit.

[Marck]

I dont mind receiving a properly refurbished unit.  I did ask if they would provide details of the original fault and the repair / refurb report to confirm that a repair / refurb was completed.  They declined saying that the unit was configured and tested before shipping.  So i asked for details on the testing process.  Again they refused my request.  So i asked if the warranty would be extended for 12 months to ensure that if it has any issues i am not left with a paper weight again no was the answer.

So i asked them to forward their warranty policy and that was met with a link to a government website outlining the warranty obligations of retailers.  So I emailed back asking for their policies in particular.  And i am now waiting for that. 

To be honest I am a little surprised at this whole thing.  They are a great ISP and have always been helpful on the rare occasion that we have had a problem.


I honestly think that the issue is that they are an ISP.  Not a hardware vendor.  And i think that they probably have a policy of just replacing modems at the drop of a hat. And to limit the losses they probably face they just run them up on the bench and then wipe them down and turn them around if basic functions work.  And this would not have been an issue if i still had plenty of time to run on the warranty.  These are all assumptions on my behalf i have no idea how they operate their services.

But in the same breath their operational procedures and their exposure to warranty risk really isn't my problem. 

Apple provide refurbished devices on warranty replacement but they also provide additional warranty on the device when they do this so any risk of a device not being up to scratch after refurb dose not sit with the customer

Its only a $200 device so its getting to the point that the time spent probably isn’t worth it. 


M