F35 jet has crashed into the sea...why?

[Faringdon]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59323895
Thank goodness the pilot is in good health.

The Western world has outsourced most of its “general electronics” out to the Far East now.
Does anyone suppose that the general level of electronics ability throughout the West may have suffered because of this? Might  this lack of ability have in some way  had some contribution to the technical fault on the F35?

This is not to criticise people who trade as middle men with China. After all, if your government legalises making pots of money so easily, then who can blame those who simply line up to pocket the money. The  profits  are certainly not heavily taxed either.

This is most definetely not anti the Chinese or the Chinese people. The Chinese , are an  upstanding, decent race of people, hardworking and community minded towards others and each other. They have become “1st world” without invading or enslaving. Being hard working and diligent, they have simply serviced product orders which have been placed with them by the West.

[Bassman59]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

Because they are shitty airplanes. The entire program should have been canceled ages ago, but our department of defense apparently has never heard of the "sunk cost fallacy."

[SiliconWizard]

Since it's under investigation and it's not civil aviation, I doubt anyone can answer your question here at this point. Not even sure the general public will ever know?

As to the overall F35 program, yes it's been highly controversial. But nobody knows here if the intrinisic qualities or lack thereof of this plane have anything to do with this crash. That I know of.

[coppercone2]

I bet this jet did exactly what the military never let anyone do, that is change too many systems at the same time in an attempt to streamline the design and reduce cost.

Back when this tech was considered amazing, they would not care about making a larger plane as to mix older parts with newer parts in the areas they did not feel confident about, but because of the radar size issue and the strong unverified reliability assurance claims that have been the norm in an attempt to greenlight fast progress..

I think its kind of like if we got rid of desktops and laptops in the computer world (which are a metric for reliability) and just went pure cell phone electronics to reduce size.

When you follow the F35 program, the kind of problems that were being investigated, reminded me more of a failed smartphone/videogame release then a standard military program. Then of course when you realize what is going on you jump back to the latest 'reasonable' design, the F15. Kind of like saying 'fuck working on this tablet, time to go install this on a desk top'. We have all probobly gone away from shady 'hot and popular' hardware like circa 2010 mini-laptops because of various faults that made is unpleasant to use.

I recall the tech trends prediction people were making some really fantastic claims about substandard hardware back 10 years ago, and the majority of people I know ended up seeing things as a 'fad' rather then the future.

How many technology platforms have been considered "product killers", "game changers", and so forth.. that ended up being geek connivance items with a high upkeep/skill requirement. This kind of shit was touted to turn your grandma into 7of9 when you bought it lol. I call it ultra aggressive marketing of miniaturization.

And when you have a lab you realize that having a old computer that easily interfaces with stuff is acceptable, reasonable, cost efficient and thee is little reason to try to aggressively eliminate them. Slowly you end up getting good community made interface patches that let you move through forward through the technological timeline.. but this is more like a luxury then a priority. You got lucky when you managed to put a SSD inside of a old scope.. its not a requirement.

[Monkeh]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

No, because not one person on this forum is in a position to.

That said, my bet is on pilot error, not your continual focus on foreign electronics.

[ataradov]

No, everything that happens in a world is China's fault. Faringdon's toilet does not flush. Can this be because of China?

Seriously, stop with this nonsense blaming everything on China. So you even have evidence that anything at all in F-35 is made in China?

[james_s]

Because they are shitty airplanes. The entire program should have been canceled ages ago, but our department of defense apparently has never heard of the "sunk cost fallacy."

I don't know what makes you say that. They are extremely expensive, they may have capabilities that are not necessary, they may not make financial sense, but that doesn't make them shitty. If anything I think they are better than necessary, and far too expensive. Like a $30k scope when a $300 Rigol would do the job.

[coppercone2]

apparently like a lecroy made flying smartphone more then anything

[Bud]

The Western world has outsourced most of its “general electronics” out to the Far East now.
Does anyone suppose that the general level of electronics ability throughout the West may have suffered because of this?

Well, if the autopilot was outsourced to Tesla....

[coppercone2]

i swear the future of warfare is aladin flying on a iRug

[bdunham7]

Planes crash sometimes.  There are a certain number of systems that don't have redundancy--like the engine in the case of the F35--and military planes are designed for a purpose rather than to just fly around safely.  Fighter jets often have characteristics that make them less safe during normal flight but better in combat.  That's one reason why they have ejection seats and civilian planes do not.  And as far as whether the F35 is 'shitty' or not, you can't even intelligently comment on that unless you know what it's actual capabilities are. 

As for why this one crashed, we don't know.  But in carrier operations with a single-engine airplane, there are going to be circumstances that are unrecoverable.  That's true even for twin engine planes.  Thus the rocket seats.

[Bassman59]

Planes crash sometimes.  There are a certain number of systems that don't have redundancy--like the engine in the case of the F35--and military planes are designed for a purpose rather than to just fly around safely.  Fighter jets often have characteristics that make them less safe during normal flight but better in combat.  That's one reason why they have ejection seats and civilian planes do not.  And as far as whether the F35 is 'shitty' or not, you can't even intelligently comment on that unless you know what it's actual capabilities are. 

As for why this one crashed, we don't know.  But in carrier operations with a single-engine airplane, there are going to be circumstances that are unrecoverable.  That's true even for twin engine planes.  Thus the rocket seats.

Maybe the plane was shot down?

It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

[bdunham7]

Maybe the plane was shot down?

It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

By a guy in a rowboat with a musket?  Perhaps, but only if the pilot forgot to switch on the force field shielding.

[coppercone2]

operation thunderball?

they will know for sure when they determine if all the parts are accounted for. if you are going down that line perhaps you should DNA test the pilot to make sure its really him too

I did hear a story a while back about a helicopter during the Vietnam war that was apparently downed by a thrown object (like a spear).

Sabotage and espionage are probably going to be investigated (i.e. downright terrorism or as a result from stealing hardware, i.e. instead of preventative maintenance you sent it to china and reuse the same no longer wanted part, or incorrect re installation of part after reverse engineering or damage during reverse engineering (i.e. pop a circuit board off after hours so you can do some x-rays and firmware dumps for your 'friends', then end up zapping it with ESD and dropping it on the floor too and then reattaching the cable poorly, not to mention it was plugged into the wrong voltage momentarily because you thought it was 5 rather then 3.3?).

I imagine about a billion "criminal" human/goverment/espionage factors potentially effecting this investigation.

[TimFox]

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_military_aircraft_(2020%E2%80%93present) for a listing of all "surprises" on military aircraft (worldwide) in 2020 and to date in 2021.

[ejeffrey]

I'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.

[xrunner]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

If anyone here says they know I'm sure they will be sought out and contacted in a very short amount of time.

[sleemanj]

A UK operated fast strike jet designed and manufactured by the United States, operating in the Mediterranean... and the first post tries to point at China

I'm going into tin foil hat production, make myself a fortune.

Like almost all aircraft accidents, there will probably be several factors which occurred to produce this unfortunate result any of which could have prevented it, until an investigation is completed what exactly those factors are is total guess work. 

[Gregg]

Once upon a time:
There was an airplane that contained multiple switch mode power supplies. 
These SMPS were not properly grounded because the plane was in the air; DUH! 
The resulting resonances between these SMPS caused high voltage spikes that caused some inferior chips sourced from an unnamed magical place to fail.
If the avionics engineers had only pestered the astute members of the EEVblog enough, they may have been able to avert the multitude of problems. 
The disabled airplane tried to dive into the treez, but the pilot bravely managed to make it to the water and managed to survive; only because of his trusty LED survival beacon not sourced from the same magical land as the faulty SMPS. 
The rest is history and the pilot lived happily ever after. 

[dietert1]

In the 1960s the german government bought from the US more than 900 "Starfighters" (Lockheed F-104A and revisions). About 300 of those crashed one after the other, killing 116 pilots. Among them an air accident where four pilots died at the same time in 1962. The son of the german minister of defense died in 1970. German airforce terminated the program in 1971.

Regards, Dieter

[wasyoungonce]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

The Western world has outsourced most of its “general electronics” out to the Far East now..

Nothing electronic on the F35 is made in China.   I'm ex Avionics many decades from mirage IIIO/FA18/F111/Pavetack/FLIR (Australia) ....no, repeat no Chinese parts were ever used in the F18 or I believe the F35.  The US would not allow it as the parts have to be all Mil Spec with full mil Spec supply line reporting and accounting.  That itself is a whole can or worms with bogus or fake parts.   Being Military Acft parts are not cheap its easy to see why people will make bogus parts.  The have been reports years back of some bogus F18 undercarriage brackets...that were easily identifiable as bogus.

There was some crap back awhile about a PCB mfgr taken over that had made PCBs for F35 Acft.  But it was never stated any of these went into the F35 and the PCBs were blank.  Being that Acft Avionic PCBs are multilayer Mil Spec ....you can bet they are USA sourced.

Oh I did use Russian miniature power valves in the Mirage servo control (flight controls).   They worked well, better than the French Valves, lower noise.  Oh those Ruskies......!  Make good valves

In the 1960s the german government bought from the US more than 900 "Starfighters" ....Regards, Dieter

Used to be called "widow maker" due to its instability in Roll and such high pwr, roll coupling.  The Mirage IIIO also had its issues, engine, Undercarriage and roll coupling (not as bad as F104).   The pwrs to be said they would never buy another single engine fighter.....apparently that lesson is lost in Australia.  I can count over a dozen times we save F18s from the mere fact it had 2 engines.   That said the old F404 was the beginning of the "hot high performance reliable" engines.

But this F35 crash...I think the Royal Airforce uses F35B so not sure it it was Duct fan fail on take off or it was short take off?  But it crashed soon after take off.

Oh my Chinese made Fluke and Rigol and PSUs work just nicely...along with my Chinese Uni-T meters

[dietert1]

There are countries who don't buy parts from other countries but complete weapon systems. The jet that crashed was one that GB got from a US enterprise. Why mention China at all? If it was sabotage, the first one to mention is USA.

Regards, Dieter

[armandine2]

My first thought wasn't exactly thank goodness the pilot was safe, but rather something like 'it takes something to ditch 100 million' something I doubt I have!

[jc101]

Rumour in the aviation world is FOD ingest on take-off leading to engine failure. 
Pilot ejected and landed back on the carrier deck. 

Did they not store enough brooms on the carrier when it left port?

[Monkeh]

Rumour in the aviation world is FOD ingest on take-off leading to engine failure. 
Pilot ejected and landed back on the carrier deck. 

Did they not store enough brooms on the carrier when it left port?

Probably those damned Americans littering again.

[coppercone2]

how about a sea worthy roomba to clean the decks?

[wasyoungonce]

Rumour in the aviation world is FOD ingest on take-off leading to engine failure. 
Pilot ejected and landed back on the carrier deck. 

Did they not store enough brooms on the carrier when it left port?

FOD walks are routine done on Flightline (FL) every morning or before ops and if necessary during the day again.   Its somewhat common for ground support equipment like jammers (used to life bombs, fuel tanks) to loose nuts and bolts as they are not looked after as much as the Acft.   They are used constantly.

All those who work FL always look out for FOD, but it does happen things fall off, jeez I've seen a Flap fall off an F18(un-seen hinge fatigue cracks).   Plus the salt air environ is extremely corrosive.    I used to be amazed at the USN Acft patchwork paint as they cut back corrosion and re-painted areas.   The F35 in the Royal navy are the F35B so uses ducted fan for vertical take off....pretty difficult to FOD that but hey...never say never.

[TimNJ]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

The Western world has outsourced most of its “general electronics” out to the Far East now..

Nothing electronic on the F35 is made in China.   I'm ex Avionics many decades from mirage IIIO/FA18/F111/Pavetack/FLIR (Australia) ....no, repeat no Chinese parts were ever used in the F18 or I believe the F35.  The US would not allow it as the parts have to be all Mil Spec with full mil Spec supply line reporting and accounting.  That itself is a whole can or worms with bogus or fake parts.   Being Military Acft parts are not cheap its easy to see why people will make bogus parts.  The have been reports years back of some bogus F18 undercarriage brackets...that were easily identifiable as bogus.

There was some crap back awhile about a PCB mfgr taken over that had made PCBs for F35 Acft.  But it was never stated any of these went into the F35 and the PCBs were blank.  Being that Acft Avionic PCBs are multilayer Mil Spec ....you can bet they are USA sourced.

Oh I did use Russian miniature power valves in the Mirage servo control (flight controls).   They worked well, better than the French Valves, lower noise.  Oh those Ruskies......!  Make good valves

In the 1960s the german government bought from the US more than 900 "Starfighters" ....Regards, Dieter

Used to be called "widow maker" due to its instability in Roll and such high pwr, roll coupling.  The Mirage IIIO also had its issues, engine, Undercarriage and roll coupling (not as bad as F104).   The pwrs to be said they would never buy another single engine fighter.....apparently that lesson is lost in Australia.  I can count over a dozen times we save F18s from the mere fact it had 2 engines.   That said the old F404 was the beginning of the "hot high performance reliable" engines.

But this F35 crash...I think the Royal Airforce uses F35B so not sure it it was Duct fan fail on take off or it was short take off?  But it crashed soon after take off.

Oh my Chinese made Fluke and Rigol and PSUs work just nicely...along with my Chinese Uni-T meters

Don't military electronics use a ton of COTS (commercial off the shelf) components these days? Supposedly, the quality of COTS components is much better than 30 or 40 years ago. You can sort of prove this if you do an MTBF calculation for a given COTS assembly with both MIL-HBK-217 (1991) and Telcordia SR-332 (2011). You'll see the 1991 MIL-HBK number comes out way lower.

To me, it seems almost impossible to have a BOM with 100% Mil-spec parts these days. I have a hard time believing that even a deep-pocketed defense contractor can get TI, et. al. to make military grade versions of their normal stuff.

And to that end, I feel like there is a large percentage of (IC's in particular) that the main (only?) fab site is in China, so can you plain just not use those? Or maybe the Pentagon is just signing hella waivers.

[David Hess]

The sea came up and hit it.

[wasyoungonce]

To me, it seems almost impossible to have a BOM with 100% Mil-spec parts these days. I have a hard time believing that even a deep-pocketed defense contractor can get TI, et. al. to make military grade versions of their normal stuff.

I thik many mfgrs parallel run production but test and bin their best parts for MilSpec then tun them thru tighter testing and assurances.  Mil Spec covers all specifications of the part from tolerances, temp ratings, radiation hardened, QA inspection, storage and test process even the manufacturing conditions...yada yada yada.   

I pulled up an old USA electronics parts 1987 MIL spec doc....for a gander...was stating that for Metallised Film capacitors must be +/-2% tolerance and this was measured at end of life.  I have no idea how they determine EOL, Jeez that's tight.

So yes, the only way you can guarantee this is to be a certified Mil Spec parts supplier meaning your parts will not be cheap this is why these Acft cost so much.  To think the buy price is just a portion, the ongoing life support costs are far higher.

This doesn't mean everything is perfect.  I've seen repaired F18 flap from external supplier repaired to Mil Spec.....we boroscope inspected thru its weep holes..could see de-bonded rivets  not clinching alloy doubles and carbonfibre.   The crap that some suppliers tried to get away with defies belief.  F18 flir LASER assy straight from factory.....qty 10, 2 were rattling inside...loose or extra screws...total fail.

So much for standards.

[Monkeh]

The F35 in the Royal navy are the F35B so uses ducted fan for vertical take off....pretty difficult to FOD that but hey...never say never.

Ducted fan driven by the turbofan, which is highly FODable, and there's no way that 15 tonne brick can take off vertically with any form of useful payload up to and including enough fuel to keep a pilot amused for an afternoon. Thrust to weight of 1.04 with a 50% load vs the ~1.3 of a Harrier, which could just about do it as a party trick with a headwind.

[David Hess]

The F35 in the Royal navy are the F35B so uses ducted fan for vertical take off....pretty difficult to FOD that but hey...never say never.

Ducted fan driven by the turbofan, which is highly FODable, and there's no way that 15 tonne brick can take off vertically with any form of useful payload up to and including enough fuel to keep a pilot amused for an afternoon. Thrust to weight of 1.04 with a 50% load vs the ~1.3 of a Harrier, which could just about do it as a party trick with a headwind.

I just checked and the F35 can also use its ducted fan for short takeoff instead of vertical takeoff.

[Rick Law]

I'm not an expert, but the idea of a "jack of all trades" one plane for all doesn't strike me well.  Each branch of the military has their requirements and this one plane has to fill them all.  Looks to me like a classic case of "a camel is a horse designed by committee."

Besides it not being able to do as good a job as something designed solely for that job, the compromise to make it multi-function likely made the systems more complex and increased the likelihood of failure.

[Monkeh]

The F35 in the Royal navy are the F35B so uses ducted fan for vertical take off....pretty difficult to FOD that but hey...never say never.

Ducted fan driven by the turbofan, which is highly FODable, and there's no way that 15 tonne brick can take off vertically with any form of useful payload up to and including enough fuel to keep a pilot amused for an afternoon. Thrust to weight of 1.04 with a 50% load vs the ~1.3 of a Harrier, which could just about do it as a party trick with a headwind.

I just checked and the F35 can also use its ducted fan for short takeoff instead of vertical takeoff.

Short take-off is the whole idea of it, yes.

[Gyro]

The F35 in the Royal navy are the F35B so uses ducted fan for vertical take off....pretty difficult to FOD that but hey...never say never.

Ducted fan driven by the turbofan, which is highly FODable, and there's no way that 15 tonne brick can take off vertically with any form of useful payload up to and including enough fuel to keep a pilot amused for an afternoon. Thrust to weight of 1.04 with a 50% load vs the ~1.3 of a Harrier, which could just about do it as a party trick with a headwind.

Bring back the good old sea Harrier. It may not have been supersonic, but it's ability to suddenly stop or go backwards mid flight without having to deploy a silly flappy thing on top, was impressive. It confused the hell out of the enemy.

[Faringdon]

Nothing electronic on the F35 is made in China.   I'm ex Avionics many decades from mirage IIIO/FA18/F111/Pavetack/FLIR (Australia) ....no, repeat no Chinese parts were ever used in the F18 or I believe the F35.

Thankyou very much.
As you know,  this line of your post is not relevant to the top post, but many thanks anyway, as it was interesting.

My Mate is a software engineer, and he has worked at places that are making prototype equipment for the UK military (that could be used by “teeth arms”)  when most of the  substantial electronics/electrical equipment used in that prototype  is designed and built in China. But it was a prototype, so I suppose buying in from China so you can get it working as soon as possible makes sense in some ways. After all, you just kind of want to test the concept, to see if its worth taking forward.

[bdunham7]

Besides it not being able to do as good a job as something designed solely for that job, the compromise to make it multi-function likely made the systems more complex and increased the likelihood of failure.

That's why there are three versions of the F35.  The 'A' for normal land runways, the 'B' for STOVL operations and the 'C' for CATOBAR.

[David Hess]

I'm not an expert, but the idea of a "jack of all trades" one plane for all doesn't strike me well.  Each branch of the military has their requirements and this one plane has to fill them all.  Looks to me like a classic case of "a camel is a horse designed by committee."

Besides it not being able to do as good a job as something designed solely for that job, the compromise to make it multi-function likely made the systems more complex and increased the likelihood of failure.

I disagree; eventually that is all the military will be able to afford, so the aircraft must fulfill the requirements of all services.

In the year 2054, the entire defense budget will purchase just one aircraft. This aircraft will have to be shared by the Air Force and Navy 3-1/2 days each per week except for leap year, when it will be made available to the Marines for the extra day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine%27s_laws

[coppercone2]

might as well be the ferengi rules of acquisition lol

[Rick Law]

Besides it not being able to do as good a job as something designed solely for that job, the compromise to make it multi-function likely made the systems more complex and increased the likelihood of failure.

That's why there are three versions of the F35.  The 'A' for normal land runways, the 'B' for STOVL operations and the 'C' for CATOBAR.

Exactly.  Case and point of added complexity to support the different versions.  Each does the job to some degree but not as well as one designed solely to do that job.

Even with that complexity, we will still be lacking an "air superiority" fighter capability, lacking a durable ground attacker (like the A10), a durable twin engine (like the Tomcat) for over-water flying...

I think the F35 will accelerate the drones-only future.  That may not be bad, but we don't need to spend trillions getting there.

[BravoV]

F-35 is a scam by MIC, you do not need to be an expert to know, that this flying submarine does not ooze confidence, looking at it's track record of keeps diving into the sea while not even in fighting.

[G7PSK]

So how many Harriers went for a swim when they first came out. What beats me is they spend so much money on a plane that under war time conditions life span will be measured  in hours if no minuets. Guess that is why the shift to drones and missiles.

[BravoV]

Guess that is why the shift to drones and missiles.

Yet, they can not beat farmers wearing slipper carrrying half century AK-47, for 20 years. 

[coppercone2]

well the harrier makes other safety records look great. But I think the branch using them has some responsibility, I recall reading angry rants from marine air mechanics and pilots that had to work 80+ hour weeks dealing with harriers, with the notion that the air-force counterparts worked ~45 hour work weeks on/with their planes (a general long term average number that someone conjured), they claim the long hours lead to poor safety and accidents

at the end of a 80 hour work week I would not be surprised if someone tried to tank one up at a 7/11

[Oldtestgear]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10236491/100m-F-35-fighter-jet-crashed-cheap-rain-cover-hadnt-taken-off.html



Well that explain it!

[coppercone2]

sounds like they need a check list in the form of a deck tarp that they throw everything that should not be on the plane on and inventory prior to take off. thats a good construction site method if no one steals, but since its a ship no one can steal too well. Or just a wheeled box if the parts are small enough. like a mail cart

[Bud]

The article says the pilot walks round after the ground crew finished preparations. How come the pilot did not see the cover not removed, unless he did not execute that procedural control.

[coppercone2]

the problem is they make someone walk (doing something), they need to pile it in the middle and make him look at it without the walking. they might actually comply with that. I don't think they can effectively make someone actually walk around and look, given my understanding of humans, but it is possible to compromise, hence the tarp method. Its essentially asking less of someones brain, and also applying a contrast for quick counting.

[xrunner]

The procedures for launching jets from boats has been around for many decades. It's all been figured out and trained for - every detail. If this is the cause, it is a lack of attention. Human error.

[dietert1]

A military airplane that is best kept dry. Might be another parallel to the Starfighter i mentioned above, besides the one engine design and besides the Lockheed origin. If the Daily Mail report is about correct, the accident is completely ridiculous. Nothing went bad or amiss, but some excess part..

Regards, Dieter

[Monkeh]

A military airplane that is best kept dry. Might be another parallel to the Starfighter i mentioned above

You'll find preventing water and other debris entering a non-running turbine is normal for, uh, everything with a turbine.

[dietert1]

Are you saying they did not take off the covers from the air intakes? Miracles over miracles.

PS: The next big thing will be a supersonic jet that works as a helicopter - and a submarine. It can take a dive, then resurface with some built-in balloons and jump start into the air like a Polaris missile.

[Monkeh]

That is what the article suggests, not me.

[coppercone2]

its reminiscent of leaving cloths in the fuel tanks of the boeings

[Gyro]

Unfortunately the story appearing in the 'Daily Fail' doesn't add the greatest credibility to the account.

There also seem to be logical inconsistencies - the rain cover being sucked into the engine, but also seen floating on the surface after the crash? If it had gone into the engine at full thrust, I would have though it would have been instantly shredded or gone to be bottom with the plane.

Would the engine actually start (through air starvation or protective monitoring systems) if the cover(s?) was in place? Edit: would it be able to taxi?

[David Hess]

Even with that complexity, we will still be lacking an "air superiority" fighter capability, lacking a durable ground attacker (like the A10), a durable twin engine (like the Tomcat) for over-water flying...

The Tomcat, and its long range Phoenix missile, were retired and not replaced because the threat they were specifically designed to counter, long range Soviet Naval Aviation, was gone.

I think they expect lightweight precision guided "smart" munitions to replace the A-10 for ground support, and I think they should, but I am unaware of any development program for a ground based localizer to support it.

I think the F35 will accelerate the drones-only future.  That may not be bad, but we don't need to spend trillions getting there.

That will happen no matter how the F-35 performs.

Yet, they can not beat farmers wearing slipper carrrying half century AK-47, for 20 years. 

LIC (low intensity conflict) is very different from the type of warfare the military was equipped and trained for, and the politicians were educated for, if they even cared.  The war was "won" in the sense of military objectives, but so was Vietnam.

[wasyoungonce]

I just cannot fathom that the intake cover was left in place.   It would be sucked down the intake and chewed up badly......chewing the engine as well.

Its the Ground crews job to prep acft (pre-flight) before flight and the pilots job to walk around the Acft inspect it before he straps in.

Total failure all over.    Yes I have seen similar, sadly.   They will undoubtedly crucify all involved.   But training costs are so high they cannot afford to dump the pilot.   He will become a better pilot from this mistake.  Sadly the cost of this is rather high.

[wasyoungonce]

I think they expect lightweight precision guided "smart" munitions to replace the A-10 for ground support, and I think they should, but I am unaware of any development program for a ground based localizer to support it.

The US is putting in a lot of money to re-fit and upgrade the A10.  It is indeed the ultimate ground support that a remote standoff weapon cannot support the ground troops.

The JSF F35 was supposed to replace A10.   Using a $100M tool in replacement of a $20M tool, and the F35 cannot do half the close ground support job, has now been recognised as, "stupid".

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/37233/the-a-10-warthog-is-preparing-for-its-biggest-upgrade-in-over-a-decade

[AlbertL]

Unfortunately the story appearing in the 'Daily Fail' doesn't add the greatest credibility to the account.

I only read the stories that mention "endless, toned pins" or "pert derriere".

[BravoV]

[wasyoungonce]

Those figures, we call serviceability rate in our Airforce, are about right.  Though at 75SQN (F18s, years back) we had a rate of pretty mush 87% at all times.  That's because that SQN had part priority over other SQNs.  77SQN was around 72% serviceability at best of times.

That said, they calculate mission capable rate differently to Australia. We count the serviceable rate of Acft ready for flight in the morning or ready for planned missions.   A lot of all nighter's were done at 75SQN. 

I noted the F35 rate dipped then rose.  They might be sorting their parts issues.  But the F22 rates are abysmal.   Maybe they are having modifications or structural fixes.  Maybe they spend a lot of time fixing surface coatings?

[David Hess]

The US is putting in a lot of money to re-fit and upgrade the A10.  It is indeed the ultimate ground support that a remote standoff weapon cannot support the ground troops.

I wasn't referring to a standoff weapon, but something more like an automated stealthy loitering bomb truck, or a mortar which lofts smart munitions.  But the idea relies on soldiers equipped with localizers to mark targets and I am not aware of any serious development in that direction.

Update: something I did not notice until after writing this post is that they are enhancing the standoff weapons capability of the A10.

The JSF F35 was supposed to replace A10.   Using a $100M tool in replacement of a $20M tool, and the F35 cannot do half the close ground support job, has now been recognised as, "stupid".

I agree that whatever would be required to replace the A10, the F35 is not it.

[TerraHertz]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10236491/100m-F-35-fighter-jet-crashed-cheap-rain-cover-hadnt-taken-off.html

I didn't think the F35 COULD take off horizontally from an aircraft carrier? That was the prime reason for there being a vertical take off version, so it could be used on carriers?

The graphic in that dailymail aricle is probably total bunk. The plane was presumably taking off vertically, and had an engine or fan failure. Hence the pilot coming down close enough to get hung up over the ship's side, hanging by the snagged parachute. If we can believe _anything_ in the press about the event.

The story about the rain cover - over what? The wing air intakes? Or the top fan intake (which has a hatch anyway.) Either it got sucked into a fan or it didn't. If it did, how could it be found floating on the sea afterwards?

Methinks they just don't want to admit it had an intrinsic power plant failure on takeoff. Because that might imply the plane is a 35M$ lemon. (Which it is.)

[Monkeh]

No, it wasn't and cannot practically take off vertically.

[Faringdon]

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-footage-shows-moment-british-f35-jet-crashes-into-mediterranean-during-hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-take-off-12482611

..its just the inevitable consequence..of what happens when you outsource  much of your general electronics industry to the other side of the world. You loose the skills[1]. The same skills that are needed in the F-35. Not to mention that general electronics is the foundation of the rest of electronics......you lose general electronics, and  you lose a big chunk of every other part of electronics, eg, the more specialist areas....because you have lost general electronics.

The pilot, all the way up to, and going up that ramp, appears to not be in control of that F-35...its going too slow...just thank goodness the pilot got out alive....i wouldnt mind betting that unfortunately the poor chap has damaged his spine getting ejected though...that was always a problem with these ejections...probably still is.....can you imagine it happening if your back wasnt totally straight....ejected pilots get  sent for MRI scans immediately following any ejection.

Wouldnt even surprise me if some bias power supply supplying a processor just didnt work...something as simple as that.
If it was a rain cover...then howcome he didnt realise straight away that something was amiss.....and howcome the sensors didnt report it.

[1]....correction "lose the skills"

[xrunner]

Leaked footage appears to show the F-35 falling into the sea -

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59470276

[Circlotron]

It was probably taking part in an air show.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_20th_century

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_show_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_21st_century

[ataradov]

Faringdon is again on the "other side of the world" train.

Yes, it could be a power supply, but if we are wildly speculating, it can be a pilot just got drunk and had no idea what is going on. Is not wild speculations fun? And they also let you push the agenda you like. Two for one deal.

[wasyoungonce]

well its clearly lost thrust for what ever reason looks like the pilot tried to stop.......it didn't.   The F35 is pretty reliable in the air...there have not been many lost so far, considering its in operation all over the world....more than 700 operating so far.

[dietert1]

Looks pretty ridiculous.
Don't jets going to lift off from a carrier start in some kind of trap so the pilot can power the engine up to "full" thrust before release of the trap? How do they check the F35 turbofan needed during short track lift-off? The F35 price certainly justifies check procedures by the buyer. Or is there something like a consumer warranty?

Regards, Dieter

[Daixiwen]

Faringdon is again on the "other side of the world" train.

Yes, it could be a power supply, but if we are wildly speculating, it can be a pilot just got drunk and had no idea what is going on. Is not wild speculations fun? And they also let you push the agenda you like. Two for one deal.

Come on! It's obvious from the video that a Chinese component failed there. It's the only rational explanation for what happened, we don't need all those "experts" and "investigations"

[mfro]

Leaked footage appears to show the F-35 falling into the sea -

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59470276

It appears the plane has the hatch open for vertical thrust? I thought that thrust rerouting is supposed to be used during landing only?

[Faringdon]

Faringdon is again on the "other side of the world" train.

Not at all.
Read the top post, this is no fault of the other side of the world.

In fact, as soon as i found out the pilot was in good health, i , with my pals, actually toasted and celebrated that F-35 getting sunk to the bottom of the sea!
...You forget that i myself operate a Far Eastern Electronics importation business, so do many of my pals.
Last year i made £35.4 million profit for myself (not anywhere near as much as my mates though)...not bad for sitting about and placing a few orders now and again.....i dont even have to see the products....just get them sent straight to customer.
Thats why, when we found out the pilot was good, we toasted the sinking of the F-35....after all, the situation surrounding it (the destruction of the Western general electronics industry) ...is the reason i get minted for doing very little! All legal!
Most westerners thank me for bringing in  "cheap products" for them...but they dont realise that i take a huge chunk of the money involved all for myself...as much as i can get away with.....and as general electronics in the west diminish's further, and as western manufacturing facilities get further reduced, i, and my pals, stand ready to ratchet the prices up as high as we possibly can. Cheers!

[xrunner]

I've read this same sort of statement in other articles. No other F-35s have been grounded. Operations with the jet are continuing -

The fact that no other jets were grounded following the incident points to the issue with the downed aircraft being very specific and not a more general technical or mechanical fault.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-footage-shows-moment-british-f35-jet-crashes-into-mediterranean-during-hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-take-off-12482611

[Bud]

...You forget that i myself operate a Far Eastern Electronics importation business, so do many of my pals.
Last year i made £35.4 million profit for myself (not anywhere near as much as my mates though)...not bad for sitting about and placing a few orders now and again..

35 million pounds a year means you were making 96 Thousand pounds Every Single Day. Was a reason with all that wealth to work as a power supply designer at some penny company?

[Faringdon]

I've read this same sort of statement in other articles. No other F-35s have been grounded. Operations with the jet are continuing -

Quote
The fact that no other jets were grounded following the incident points to the issue with the downed aircraft being very specific and not a more general technical or mechanical fault.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-footage-shows-moment-british-f35-jet-crashes-into-mediterranean-during-hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-take-off-12482611

Ive actually worked on products where there were intermittent faults....the hardware was bad on all products, but only the odd one would display the fault. It was a comparator output that was  being read by a micro......the comparator was not a good solution to read the signal that it was reading....and so in fact, if the signal was heavily infected with electrical noise, then the product would actually go on and work properly...but if  less noisy, then the fault showed up......most of the products had lots of noise, so they worked ok.
This shows how a hardware fault can afflict only one  of a batch of products...even though each product has the same hardware design fault......so there's no telling that the other F-35's aren't just waiting to see the particular  fault come along and raise its ugly head.

[Gyro]

...
...You forget that i myself operate a Far Eastern Electronics importation business, so do many of my pals.
Last year i made £35.4 million profit for myself (not anywhere near as much as my mates though)...not bad for sitting about and placing a few orders now and again.....i dont even have to see the products....just get them sent straight to customer.
...

Is this the Treez / Faringdon who just left a contracting job at some shite hole after one day (at the rate of £35k p.a.) and is currently looking for job site links in Europe?

Made £35.4M last year? I think the nut has cracked! 

[Bassman59]

You loose the skills.

I assume that English is your first language.

[coppercone2]

I've read this same sort of statement in other articles. No other F-35s have been grounded. Operations with the jet are continuing -

Quote
The fact that no other jets were grounded following the incident points to the issue with the downed aircraft being very specific and not a more general technical or mechanical fault.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-footage-shows-moment-british-f35-jet-crashes-into-mediterranean-during-hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-take-off-12482611

Ive actually worked on products where there were intermittent faults....the hardware was bad on all products, but only the odd one would display the fault. It was a comparator output that was  being read by a micro......the comparator was not a good solution to read the signal that it was reading....and so in fact, if the signal was heavily infected with electrical noise, then the product would actually go on and work properly...but if  less noisy, then the fault showed up......most of the products had lots of noise, so they worked ok.
This shows how a hardware fault can afflict only one  of a batch of products...even though each product has the same hardware design fault......so there's no telling that the other F-35's aren't just waiting to see the particular  fault come along and raise its ugly head.

it passed susceptibility tests? this is possibly the result of a bad test lab visit. I figure when its working at full load + being irradiated, these problems should be apparent.

[BravoV]

ASDF F-35 fighter makes emergency landing at Hakodate Airport, Hokkaido.

Source -> https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/12/08/national/hakodate-asdf-f35-landing/

[TimFox]

You loose the skills.

I assume that English is your first language.

Or, as is written in the King James Translation of Job 38, verse 31:
"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?"

[Circlotron]

You loose the skills.

I assume that English is your first language.

Or, as is written in the King James Translation of Job 38, verse 31:
"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?"

Loose as in loosen. Like letting out a trouser belt around one’s fat tummy.
Or maybe release, as in untie something that is tied up securely.

[thm_w]

Is this the Treez / Faringdon who just left a contracting job at some shite hole after one day (at the rate of £35k p.a.) and is currently looking for job site links in Europe?

Made £35.4M last year? I think the nut has cracked! 

The post is intended to be taken as a joke, as he hates chinese importers, its what he sees is their perspective.

[Gyro]

Is this the Treez / Faringdon who just left a contracting job at some shite hole after one day (at the rate of £35k p.a.) and is currently looking for job site links in Europe?

Made £35.4M last year? I think the nut has cracked! 

The post is intended to be taken as a joke, as he hates chinese importers, its what he sees is their perspective.

Reading his post, I detect no sense of that...

Faringdon is again on the "other side of the world" train.

Not at all.
Read the top post, this is no fault of the other side of the world.

In fact, as soon as i found out the pilot was in good health, i , with my pals, actually toasted and celebrated that F-35 getting sunk to the bottom of the sea!
...You forget that i myself operate a Far Eastern Electronics importation business, so do many of my pals.
Last year i made £35.4 million profit for myself (not anywhere near as much as my mates though)...not bad for sitting about and placing a few orders now and again.....i dont even have to see the products....just get them sent straight to customer.
Thats why, when we found out the pilot was good, we toasted the sinking of the F-35....after all, the situation surrounding it (the destruction of the Western general electronics industry) ...is the reason i get minted for doing very little! All legal!
Most westerners thank me for bringing in  "cheap products" for them...but they dont realise that i take a huge chunk of the money involved all for myself...as much as i can get away with.....and as general electronics in the west diminish's further, and as western manufacturing facilities get further reduced, i, and my pals, stand ready to ratchet the prices up as high as we possibly can. Cheers!

P.S. It doesn't seem to have been well publicised, but they successfully recovered the plane a couple of days ago.

[thm_w]

Reading his post, I detect no sense of that...

Your sarcasm meter is broken.

eg https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/offline-isolated-smps-must-be-in-metal-enclosure-(to-pass-radiated-emissions)/msg3607222/#msg3607222

[Faringdon]

There also seem to be logical inconsistencies - the rain cover being sucked into the engine, but also seen floating on the surface after the crash? If it had gone into the engine at full thrust, I would have though it would have been instantly shredded or gone to be bottom with the plane.

Would the engine actually start (through air starvation or protective monitoring systems) if the cover(s?) was in place? Edit: would it be able to taxi?

..yes, its obvious that a rain cover getting sucked into the engine before take off coudlnt have been the crash causation. -Obviously such an event would show up to the pilot and he wouldnt then  go up the "runway deck" at all.
However, i am more than happy for all to believe that this is what happened......after all, the real reason is that  the West doesn't design and make basic electronics any more.....and such has meant that the F-35 isnt that well designed and built.....but as discussed, as a wealthy importer of electronics from the Far East to the West, i am part of the situation of badness in the F-35's design and build.......so  i will drink to many many more F-35's getting sunk (as long as the pilots emerge unscathed and totally unharmed of course).

If you lose your basic electronics design and build, by importing most of your basic electronics from the Far East....then you lose a massive chunk of the whole lot of electronics....and your military hardware is basically , inevitably, poorly designed and built....as we saw, with it literally , pathetically , plopping off the edge of the carrier.

We had a great laugh back in 2004, when, being shown round the HMS Albion in Plymouth, the Chief Petty Officer described the general design of the boat as "barking mad"....his own words, not mine. (at the time, we were down in the hull, in a big kind of chamber where the water de-salination plant was sited)

Of course, we in the UK have completely given up any thoughts of designing and building the propulsion systems of our latest T45 warships.....we subcontract that out to non-UK countries. And that includes the Queen Elizabeth Aircraft carrier...and  the HMS Albion  too.
When we visited  the HMS Albion in Plymouth, a young Naval officer approached us and said he wanted to speak to the designers of the ship's Electric Drive...he asked us to point them  out to him....but we told him that they weren't with us, and that they were in France, as they were French people, working for Alstom.......this Naval officer looked baffled...he hadn't actually been aware of this. I'm not saying  there's any problem with having French built electric drives.....but with such vast military hardware...you'd expect a country purchasing it to want to have a swing at it themselves.

[Gyro]

...
When we visited  the HMS Albion in Plymouth, a young Naval officer approached us and said he wanted to speak to the designers of the ship's Electric Drive...he asked us to point them  out to him....but we told him that they weren't with us, and that they were in France, as they were French people, working for Alstom.......this Naval officer looked baffled...he hadn't actually been aware of this. I'm not saying  there's any problem with having French built electric drives.....but with such vast military hardware...you'd expect a country purchasing it to want to have a swing at it themselves.

Oh, so you've designed stuff for the Royal Navy now too are you Treez? I'm really surprised that you got a security clearance with your background. You really are stretching your credibility to breaking point these days! 

[brian_mk]

So it's not just me that thinks that many electronic components manufactured in the far east are not up to standard and not always fully tested.

[PlainName]

So it's not just me that thinks that many electronic components manufactured in the far east are not up to standard and not always fully tested.

It's just you that writes about nothing else. Nineteen posts, and all of them whining about Chinese kit.

[ataradov]

So it's not just me that thinks that many electronic components manufactured in the far east are not up to standard and not always fully tested.

Don't buy cheapest of the cheap  from eBay/Ali. People get easily confused. China will sell anything to you if there are any money to be made. Western companies easily scrap inventory if it is not "up to standard" and lose money on it.

Chinese components from reputable suppliers and manufacturers are not worse, if not better. But they are not dirt cheap either in that case.

China gives you an option to risk it for the cheaper price and do the testing yourself. And I personally value that option. I buy cheap stuff all the time fully knowing that some of it will QC issues, since it is just scrap sold for cheap. Having that option is great.

[Bud]

You call this "option", i call this "scam".

[ataradov]

You call this "option", i call this "scam".

Then don't buy from China. That's how options work.

[dietert1]

The proposed approach of testing quality into products of unknown quality isn't the method preferred by professional QM experts. They prefer bottom up certification.
I am right now confronted with difficult to answer questions about unannounced audits and they want to see contracts that guarantee access for inspection. Unbelievable, similar to those stories about communist party inspectors entering private rooms. I was already asked to provide all source codes on a CD for inspection, of course under a contract that guarantees protection. Aha? And we have to write a folder describing our software development process. Maybe in the end it is about paying bribes, i don't know.

Regards, Dieter

[ataradov]

The proposed approach of testing quality into products of unknown quality isn't the method preferred by professional QM experts. They prefer bottom up certification.

And that is great. They have an option of buying from proven suppliers. They even have an option of buying automotive or aerospace qualified parts. Including from China. There are plenty of legitimate Chinese (and Asian in general) companies, you just won't find their products on eBay.

And hobbyists and low volume applications have an option of buying stuff from AliExpress.

Of course you need to apply brains and not use random junk in safety-critical applications. But arguing that availability of those parts somehow "makes" engineers use them is just wrong.

If you are doing something that can trigger an audit, get all the paperwork you can. But if you are doing some trinket you sell on etsy, then who cares what parts go into it.

And also, traceable and "legit" parts are not necessarily going to make for a better product, they will just make your life easier during the audit. When ESP8266 first appeared many "legit" module vendors laughed and called it "junk", but it turned that ESP8266 has much better hardware and firmware at a much more acceptable price. So they all had to stop laughing and start writing marketing "fighting guides".

I fundamentally disagree with the "western" model of only selling the high quality, but high price product not even trying to cover low end market. This was awesome approach many years ago, we all have stories of things designed and built in the 80s still working today. Those things were built to last and there was a reason to buy them at the asked price. But then all those companies dropped the quality, but because they are "western" they can still skate on popularity or reputation of a brand (most of which are sold to Chinese companies anyway). China covers low end market, and I really appreciate that. Chinese tools allowed many here to have a scope. And otherwise we would be sitting here waiting on Keysight to make a low end scope, which they will never do because it eats into their profits on high end models.

[GlennSprigg]

I always loved a pilot-friend's description of a yoke/joystick...
He said, "You pull it, to make houses smaller, and push it to make houses bigger!!"
Never discount pilot error. How many crashes have been at bloody air-shows as well,
when pilots push the limits, and have a bit too much testosterone!!   

[BravoV]

U.S.-made F-35s grounded in South Korea after malfunction forces fighter jet to make dramatic belly landing

-> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/f35-grounded-south-korea-malfunction-emergency-landing/


South Korean stealth fighter makes emergency 'belly landing'

-> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/05/asia/south-korea-f-35-fighter-jet-belly-landing-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

[Gyro]

It seems to be open season on recovering F35s from the bottom of the sea before the opposition can get their hands on them. Another "mishap during take-off", although this time from a US carrier, so no ramp.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60148482

Maybe they should start fitting aircraft carriers with camera guided grappling hooks (or stop putting secret technology in the planes!).

[coppercone2]

well, a few weeks ago there was some news reports about greatly enhanced Chinese electronic warfare capabilities in the south china sea area.. I wonder if that is related

https://www.csis.org/analysis/china-ramping-its-electronic-warfare-and-communications-capabilities-near-south-china-sea

[Gyro]

Or the rubber band snapped on their catapult! 


EDIT: Actually, looking again, the report says that seven sailors were injured when it hit the deck, so it was maybe either a catapult failure, causing it to bounce off the track or a plane problem on take-off causing it to abort and fail to land successfully back on the deck. No specific info on the pilot.

[jpanhalt]

The US Navy describes the US F-35 loss as a landing accident (https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/01/24/seven-sailors-injured-in-landing-mishap-aboard-carrier-carl-vinson/ ).

Other souses say the pilot made a "wanky" approach and hit the deck really hard.  I have never heard of a "wanky" approach.  My guess is inept, as in the pilot never got into stabilized approach.  Too slow and a too high in a brick could certainly end up in a hard landing.

EDIT: Posted at 4:37 PM EST (+5).  No idea why the time in the header appears on my screen as incorrect by one hour.

[BravoV]

Its purely pilot's fault, as single seated advanced stealth submarine, the pilot supposed to submerge it into the sea, not on the hard surface. Looking at it's price tag, its not a war machine, more like money machine for the military industrial complex, the senators as for the cut and also neocons in Washington.

Not bad, one gone, just purchase the replacement and get discount if purchase >1, as the patriotic hard working tax payers will never complain anyway.

[eti]

Anybody know why this £100 million pound F35 jet went down?...

Yes, it was apparently unable to maintain flight.

[BravoV]

Images emerge of one the US Navy's newest stealth fighters was about to activate submarine mode.

Source -> https://us.cnn.com/2022/01/28/asia/us-navy-f-35-crash-photos-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

[Bud]

... activate submarine mode.

Maybe it IS a good idea for the enginers to start looking into adding this mode of operation.

[voltsandjolts]

EDIT: Posted at 4:37 PM EST (+5).  No idea why the time in the header appears on my screen as incorrect by one hour.

Adjust your forum time offset.

[jpanhalt]

Do you really think I haven't tried many times?  At least when we go DST, it's correct.
EDIT: Image below was my profile associated with the statement above.  Working now, but profile is unchanged.

EDIT:  How did you get to that page.  I was just going to my profile and changing it.  Your page seemed to work. SOLVED.  Got it.

[coppercone2]

... activate submarine mode.

Maybe it IS a good idea for the enginers to start looking into adding this mode of operation.

maybe for the japanese version

[TerraHertz]

About the recent F35 crash on carrier landing attempt. 
https://trusttheq.com/navy-pilot-crashes-plane-ejects-after-vax-reaction/
Navy Pilot Crashes Plane, Ejects, After Vax Reaction

True or not? Who knows? Those following aviation news may be seeing a pattern.

[ataradov]

Did he fly a plane 10 minutes after vaccination? This is such obvious BS that you don't even need to think about it for too long. LOL. Look at the other BS news this site has. Why is this even here?

And of course the pilot would blame anyone and anything but himself.

[Bud]

The article says he was vaccinated 72 hrs prior to the flight.

[PlainName]

The article also says:

As an aside, the Vinson’s CO, Capt. P. Scott Miller, is a “black hat” who has endorsed the criminal Biden administration.

I think that indicates which side of the reality field this one is batting from.

[coppercone2]

The article says he was vaccinated 72 hrs prior to the flight.

that's within the time period of experiencing mild flu like symptoms that could effect human response time, concentration and decision making (speaking from experiencing). maybe they should ground them for a week after vaccination

[ataradov]

that's within the time period of experiencing mild flu like symptoms that could effect human response time

Yes, but reported reason is "was experiencing sudden and intense chest pain, as if “someone hit me with a baseball bat.”" But this information is not official and pulled out of the author's ass.

Again, this site is full of "information" like this. "RRN is an independent publisher that relies on reader support. We fight for truth and freedom of the press in an oppressed society. We use GiveSendGo, a Christian-based fundraising company, through which to collect donations." Also the site is literally named Trust The Q. Do you even need to look further? How do you even come up by this bullshit in a first place?

[TerraHertz]

Like I said 'who knows if it's true.'  But it's a thread to pull on.
Something to remember, to see what turns up later that fits (or doesn't.)
And also like I said, there is a 'thing' related to most active US pilots (civil and mil) having taken the vax (because employer mandates), and various interesting aviation statistics developing recently.

Btw, the US armed forces _are_ forcing all pilots to get vaxxed, and kicking out ones who refuse. And there's this:
Army medical doctor speaks up about the vax
THERESA MARIE LONG, MD, MPH, FS LTC, MEDICAL CORPS, U.S. Army
  https://www.naturalnews.com/2021-09-29-aerospace-medicine-specialist-ground-vaxxed-pilots.html
  Army physician and aerospace medicine specialist calls on Pentagon to order all pilots who have received COVID-19 vaccine to be grounded.
  https://www.afinalwarning.com/557117.html
  https://www.deepcapture.com/2021/09/affidavit-of-ltc-theresa-long-m-d-in-support-of-a-motion-for-a-preliminary-injunction-order/
  AFFIDAVIT OF LTC. THERESA LONG M.D. IN SUPPORT OF A MOTION FOR A PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION ORDER
  https://cdn.locals.com/documents/640135/640135_7hp4is8t5wsbitj.pdf    the original


Another example 'file for reference' (and entertainment) story re F35:
   https://patriots.win/p/141Y4YlShs/100-of-female-f35-pilots-have-cr/c/
   100% of female f35 pilots have crashed

It's the nature of reality that received information details often cannot be verified. At least not immediately,
and especially when 'certain topics' are clearly being actively suppressed by major channels.
So black and white total exclusion and ignoring of all data items that are of 'unknown veracity'
is unwise. Just file it under 'maybe' and move on. Look for patterns building up over time.
Sometimes you may find solid confirmation of something, even years later. That you would never
have noticed if you wiped memory of the original item.

The net consequence of that first article, is you should keep some questions in mind:
* Did the pilot radio reporting severe chest pains during lanfing approach? (Which would totally explain the botched landing.)
* Was the pilot quite recently vaxxed?
* What is the pilot's current medical status?  Healthy, dead, alive but suffering myocarditis? (That doesn't go away.)

That's all.

[ataradov]

Like I said 'who knows if it's true.'  But it's a thread to pull on.

No, it is not. You can't just spew out nonsense out of thin air and then say "who knows, it may be true". Keep that Q conspiracy bull out of here.

patriots.win

lol.

Just stop.

[EEVblog]

Any talk of the vaccine here and posts will get deleted and/or the thread locked, please don't bring it up again.

[eti]

Any talk of the vaccine here and posts will get deleted and/or the thread locked, please don't bring it up again.

Thank goodness for sanity! Fed up of it too, it's like people are brainwashed (they are)

[Cerebus]

Another example 'file for reference' (and entertainment) story re F35:
   https://patriots.win/p/141Y4YlShs/100-of-female-f35-pilots-have-cr/c/
   100% of female f35 pilots have crashed

So:

Captain Kristin "Beo" Wolfe
Maj. Madison "Rocky" Burgess
Lt. Col. Christine Mau
Monessa “Siren” Balzhiser
US Marine Captain Anneliese Satz
Capt. Emily "Banzai" Thompson
Maj. Rachael Winiecki
Cpt. “Shin.” (Israeli, name officially anonymised)

have, according to you, crashed. These are all publicly avowed F35 pilots (who were easily found with a Google search for "female F35 pilot" and literally two or three minutes canning the results). I'm sure there are more, but I gave up at eight because it's a significant number here.

There have been, so far, seven F35 crashes. Wait, I've just listed eight female F35 pilots. Ooh, and at least the Japanese pilot who was involved in a crash, Major Akinori Hosomi, he was named.

What kind of moron is going to believe the misogynistic bullshit you're peddling?

[BravoV]

... activate submarine mode.

Maybe it IS a good idea for the enginers to start looking into adding this mode of operation.

maybe for the japanese version

Japanese version doesn't have submarine mode, its designed with special mode to honor the legendary Japanese warrior tradition and has a special button in the cockpit labelled "BANZAI!" to activate the Kamikaze mode. 

In 2019 Japan tested this mode with one of their F-35.

[BravoV]

Lockheed’s F-35s Get a Flawed $14 Billion Software Upgrade

Quote ...
Pentagon testing office says software is ‘immature, deficient’
Flaws in updates of fighter jet’s software date back to 2020

Source -> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-26/f-35-fighter-jet-s--14-billion-software-upgrade-is-deployed-despite-flaws

Looking at the money thrown to this toy, I starting to believe its more like money making & laundering machine instead of war machine. 

But again, no big deal, to patriot tax payers, keep working hard and pay tax. 

[Buriedcode]

Like I said 'who knows if it's true.'  But it's a thread to pull on.

I'm not sure what the thinking is here... an obvious troll website (or seriously batshit conspiracy right wing nuttery) isn't really a "thread to pull on". Thats like saying because websites exist claiming the moonlandings were faked, it's a valid reason to discuss the idea.

Btw, the US armed forces _are_ forcing all pilots to get vaxxed, and kicking out ones who refuse. And there's this:
<bunch of extremely questionable "articles" from some clearely conspiracy right-wing websites>

I realise I'm just bashing on your links here, but "naturalnews" and "deepcapture" are both set up specifically to promote dangerous (and clearly wrong) ideas about health and economics. I'm unsure if you're aware of this, did you just google for websites that confirmed what you think? or did you come to your conclusions based on these websites?

It's the nature of reality that received information details often cannot be verified. At least not immediately,
and especially when 'certain topics' are clearly being actively suppressed by major channels.
So black and white total exclusion and ignoring of all data items that are of 'unknown veracity'
is unwise. Just file it under 'maybe' and move on. Look for patterns building up over time.
Sometimes you may find solid confirmation of something, even years later. That you would never
have noticed if you wiped memory of the original item.

The net consequence of that first article, is you should keep some questions in mind:
* Did the pilot radio reporting severe chest pains during lanfing approach? (Which would totally explain the botched landing.)
* Was the pilot quite recently vaxxed?
* What is the pilot's current medical status?  Healthy, dead, alive but suffering myocarditis? (That doesn't go away.)

That's all.

I'm not really sure how to unpack all this.  I doesn't really make any sense, it just reads like someone trying to convince others that theres a conpiracy of silence or something, by "just asking questions".

* What is the pilot's current medical status?  Healthy, dead, alive but suffering myocarditis? (That doesn't go away.)

. 

Of course myocarditis "goes away" in most cases, its not a permenant condition.  Honestly dude, I know these sorts of events can be quite interesting, working out all the things that led to a crash/disaster, and speculating can be fun, but it sounds like you've either just tried to steer it towards your own biases, or been steered that way by news feeds/articles etc..  Try and take a step back and ask yourself how likely any of these ideas really are.

[TerraHertz]

An F-35 just fell off a carrier, right next to China. Who’ll get to it first?

Cerebus. It appears you are just reacting to the silly poster title, and not the linked thread content. For starters the thread says "First female NAVY F35 pilot. " Yeah , a few other female F35 pilots exist. And plenty of female pilots in the air force. This is all discussed in the thread.

[m98]

EASA recommends a waiting period of 72 hours after a covid vaccination for pilots in single crew cockpits. But that doesn't account for the increased physical exertion experienced by a fighter pilot. So while I guess it's very unlikely for this to be a reason for an ejection, who knows, maybe it did actually degrade the pilots performance to some degree.

[dietert1]

Maybe it was a Covid19 infection, not a vaccination. Those are heroes who perform well even with a flu.

[ataradov]

Why are you even discussing this? There is no official information on his medical condition. Why discuss made up fake "news" article?

If we are going wild, then I think the pilot was drunk and playing poker during the lading. And he was drunk because his girlfriend broke up with him.

[jpanhalt]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/f35-jet-has-crashed-into-the-sea-why/msg3973898/#msg3973898

Frankly, I find discussing booze more interesting.

[Faringdon]

...Ditto the text of the top post

[Gyro]

...Ditto the text of the top post

...Ditto all of the 'Don't be an asshole' replies that followed it.

[MK14]

...Ditto the text of the top post

To check my recollection, it goes ...
Treez says "I love China, and wouldn't say or even think anything bad about China, to be clear, I'm definitely NOT trying to sneak in an anti-China Political Thread starter, underneath the mods noses".

We say, "F35 has all US/EU/Non-China design/electronics/stuff, is NOT from China".

Treez says "It's 110% caused by Terrible Chinese electronics. Bad SMPS/LEDs, wasn't enough for them".

[jpanhalt]

After looking at the new video, I see a rapid increase in descent and left wing drop.  The left wing drop was apparently uncontrolled.  That could be caused by too low an airspeed secondary to raising the nose and trying to get down from being too high.   Navy or someone with better audio reported that the pilot was told to go around. 

My guess is the end result was pilot error with failure to maintain adequate airspeed.  It is quite common to blame the pilot as the ultimate cause.