F35 jet has crashed into the sea...why?

[Faringdon]

I've read this same sort of statement in other articles. No other F-35s have been grounded. Operations with the jet are continuing -

Quote
The fact that no other jets were grounded following the incident points to the issue with the downed aircraft being very specific and not a more general technical or mechanical fault.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-footage-shows-moment-british-f35-jet-crashes-into-mediterranean-during-hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-take-off-12482611

Ive actually worked on products where there were intermittent faults....the hardware was bad on all products, but only the odd one would display the fault. It was a comparator output that was  being read by a micro......the comparator was not a good solution to read the signal that it was reading....and so in fact, if the signal was heavily infected with electrical noise, then the product would actually go on and work properly...but if  less noisy, then the fault showed up......most of the products had lots of noise, so they worked ok.
This shows how a hardware fault can afflict only one  of a batch of products...even though each product has the same hardware design fault......so there's no telling that the other F-35's aren't just waiting to see the particular  fault come along and raise its ugly head.

[Gyro]

...
...You forget that i myself operate a Far Eastern Electronics importation business, so do many of my pals.
Last year i made £35.4 million profit for myself (not anywhere near as much as my mates though)...not bad for sitting about and placing a few orders now and again.....i dont even have to see the products....just get them sent straight to customer.
...

Is this the Treez / Faringdon who just left a contracting job at some shite hole after one day (at the rate of £35k p.a.) and is currently looking for job site links in Europe?

Made £35.4M last year? I think the nut has cracked! 

[Bassman59]

You loose the skills.

I assume that English is your first language.

[coppercone2]

I've read this same sort of statement in other articles. No other F-35s have been grounded. Operations with the jet are continuing -

Quote
The fact that no other jets were grounded following the incident points to the issue with the downed aircraft being very specific and not a more general technical or mechanical fault.

https://news.sky.com/story/leaked-footage-shows-moment-british-f35-jet-crashes-into-mediterranean-during-hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-take-off-12482611

Ive actually worked on products where there were intermittent faults....the hardware was bad on all products, but only the odd one would display the fault. It was a comparator output that was  being read by a micro......the comparator was not a good solution to read the signal that it was reading....and so in fact, if the signal was heavily infected with electrical noise, then the product would actually go on and work properly...but if  less noisy, then the fault showed up......most of the products had lots of noise, so they worked ok.
This shows how a hardware fault can afflict only one  of a batch of products...even though each product has the same hardware design fault......so there's no telling that the other F-35's aren't just waiting to see the particular  fault come along and raise its ugly head.

it passed susceptibility tests? this is possibly the result of a bad test lab visit. I figure when its working at full load + being irradiated, these problems should be apparent.

[BravoV]

ASDF F-35 fighter makes emergency landing at Hakodate Airport, Hokkaido.

Source -> https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/12/08/national/hakodate-asdf-f35-landing/

[TimFox]

You loose the skills.

I assume that English is your first language.

Or, as is written in the King James Translation of Job 38, verse 31:
"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?"

[Circlotron]

You loose the skills.

I assume that English is your first language.

Or, as is written in the King James Translation of Job 38, verse 31:
"Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?"

Loose as in loosen. Like letting out a trouser belt around one’s fat tummy.
Or maybe release, as in untie something that is tied up securely.

[thm_w]

Is this the Treez / Faringdon who just left a contracting job at some shite hole after one day (at the rate of £35k p.a.) and is currently looking for job site links in Europe?

Made £35.4M last year? I think the nut has cracked! 

The post is intended to be taken as a joke, as he hates chinese importers, its what he sees is their perspective.

[Gyro]

Is this the Treez / Faringdon who just left a contracting job at some shite hole after one day (at the rate of £35k p.a.) and is currently looking for job site links in Europe?

Made £35.4M last year? I think the nut has cracked! 

The post is intended to be taken as a joke, as he hates chinese importers, its what he sees is their perspective.

Reading his post, I detect no sense of that...

Faringdon is again on the "other side of the world" train.

Not at all.
Read the top post, this is no fault of the other side of the world.

In fact, as soon as i found out the pilot was in good health, i , with my pals, actually toasted and celebrated that F-35 getting sunk to the bottom of the sea!
...You forget that i myself operate a Far Eastern Electronics importation business, so do many of my pals.
Last year i made £35.4 million profit for myself (not anywhere near as much as my mates though)...not bad for sitting about and placing a few orders now and again.....i dont even have to see the products....just get them sent straight to customer.
Thats why, when we found out the pilot was good, we toasted the sinking of the F-35....after all, the situation surrounding it (the destruction of the Western general electronics industry) ...is the reason i get minted for doing very little! All legal!
Most westerners thank me for bringing in  "cheap products" for them...but they dont realise that i take a huge chunk of the money involved all for myself...as much as i can get away with.....and as general electronics in the west diminish's further, and as western manufacturing facilities get further reduced, i, and my pals, stand ready to ratchet the prices up as high as we possibly can. Cheers!

P.S. It doesn't seem to have been well publicised, but they successfully recovered the plane a couple of days ago.

[thm_w]

Reading his post, I detect no sense of that...

Your sarcasm meter is broken.

eg https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/offline-isolated-smps-must-be-in-metal-enclosure-(to-pass-radiated-emissions)/msg3607222/#msg3607222

[Faringdon]

There also seem to be logical inconsistencies - the rain cover being sucked into the engine, but also seen floating on the surface after the crash? If it had gone into the engine at full thrust, I would have though it would have been instantly shredded or gone to be bottom with the plane.

Would the engine actually start (through air starvation or protective monitoring systems) if the cover(s?) was in place? Edit: would it be able to taxi?

..yes, its obvious that a rain cover getting sucked into the engine before take off coudlnt have been the crash causation. -Obviously such an event would show up to the pilot and he wouldnt then  go up the "runway deck" at all.
However, i am more than happy for all to believe that this is what happened......after all, the real reason is that  the West doesn't design and make basic electronics any more.....and such has meant that the F-35 isnt that well designed and built.....but as discussed, as a wealthy importer of electronics from the Far East to the West, i am part of the situation of badness in the F-35's design and build.......so  i will drink to many many more F-35's getting sunk (as long as the pilots emerge unscathed and totally unharmed of course).

If you lose your basic electronics design and build, by importing most of your basic electronics from the Far East....then you lose a massive chunk of the whole lot of electronics....and your military hardware is basically , inevitably, poorly designed and built....as we saw, with it literally , pathetically , plopping off the edge of the carrier.

We had a great laugh back in 2004, when, being shown round the HMS Albion in Plymouth, the Chief Petty Officer described the general design of the boat as "barking mad"....his own words, not mine. (at the time, we were down in the hull, in a big kind of chamber where the water de-salination plant was sited)

Of course, we in the UK have completely given up any thoughts of designing and building the propulsion systems of our latest T45 warships.....we subcontract that out to non-UK countries. And that includes the Queen Elizabeth Aircraft carrier...and  the HMS Albion  too.
When we visited  the HMS Albion in Plymouth, a young Naval officer approached us and said he wanted to speak to the designers of the ship's Electric Drive...he asked us to point them  out to him....but we told him that they weren't with us, and that they were in France, as they were French people, working for Alstom.......this Naval officer looked baffled...he hadn't actually been aware of this. I'm not saying  there's any problem with having French built electric drives.....but with such vast military hardware...you'd expect a country purchasing it to want to have a swing at it themselves.

[Gyro]

...
When we visited  the HMS Albion in Plymouth, a young Naval officer approached us and said he wanted to speak to the designers of the ship's Electric Drive...he asked us to point them  out to him....but we told him that they weren't with us, and that they were in France, as they were French people, working for Alstom.......this Naval officer looked baffled...he hadn't actually been aware of this. I'm not saying  there's any problem with having French built electric drives.....but with such vast military hardware...you'd expect a country purchasing it to want to have a swing at it themselves.

Oh, so you've designed stuff for the Royal Navy now too are you Treez? I'm really surprised that you got a security clearance with your background. You really are stretching your credibility to breaking point these days! 

[brian_mk]

So it's not just me that thinks that many electronic components manufactured in the far east are not up to standard and not always fully tested.

[PlainName]

So it's not just me that thinks that many electronic components manufactured in the far east are not up to standard and not always fully tested.

It's just you that writes about nothing else. Nineteen posts, and all of them whining about Chinese kit.

[ataradov]

So it's not just me that thinks that many electronic components manufactured in the far east are not up to standard and not always fully tested.

Don't buy cheapest of the cheap  from eBay/Ali. People get easily confused. China will sell anything to you if there are any money to be made. Western companies easily scrap inventory if it is not "up to standard" and lose money on it.

Chinese components from reputable suppliers and manufacturers are not worse, if not better. But they are not dirt cheap either in that case.

China gives you an option to risk it for the cheaper price and do the testing yourself. And I personally value that option. I buy cheap stuff all the time fully knowing that some of it will QC issues, since it is just scrap sold for cheap. Having that option is great.

[Bud]

You call this "option", i call this "scam".

[ataradov]

You call this "option", i call this "scam".

Then don't buy from China. That's how options work.

[dietert1]

The proposed approach of testing quality into products of unknown quality isn't the method preferred by professional QM experts. They prefer bottom up certification.
I am right now confronted with difficult to answer questions about unannounced audits and they want to see contracts that guarantee access for inspection. Unbelievable, similar to those stories about communist party inspectors entering private rooms. I was already asked to provide all source codes on a CD for inspection, of course under a contract that guarantees protection. Aha? And we have to write a folder describing our software development process. Maybe in the end it is about paying bribes, i don't know.

Regards, Dieter

[ataradov]

The proposed approach of testing quality into products of unknown quality isn't the method preferred by professional QM experts. They prefer bottom up certification.

And that is great. They have an option of buying from proven suppliers. They even have an option of buying automotive or aerospace qualified parts. Including from China. There are plenty of legitimate Chinese (and Asian in general) companies, you just won't find their products on eBay.

And hobbyists and low volume applications have an option of buying stuff from AliExpress.

Of course you need to apply brains and not use random junk in safety-critical applications. But arguing that availability of those parts somehow "makes" engineers use them is just wrong.

If you are doing something that can trigger an audit, get all the paperwork you can. But if you are doing some trinket you sell on etsy, then who cares what parts go into it.

And also, traceable and "legit" parts are not necessarily going to make for a better product, they will just make your life easier during the audit. When ESP8266 first appeared many "legit" module vendors laughed and called it "junk", but it turned that ESP8266 has much better hardware and firmware at a much more acceptable price. So they all had to stop laughing and start writing marketing "fighting guides".

I fundamentally disagree with the "western" model of only selling the high quality, but high price product not even trying to cover low end market. This was awesome approach many years ago, we all have stories of things designed and built in the 80s still working today. Those things were built to last and there was a reason to buy them at the asked price. But then all those companies dropped the quality, but because they are "western" they can still skate on popularity or reputation of a brand (most of which are sold to Chinese companies anyway). China covers low end market, and I really appreciate that. Chinese tools allowed many here to have a scope. And otherwise we would be sitting here waiting on Keysight to make a low end scope, which they will never do because it eats into their profits on high end models.

[GlennSprigg]

I always loved a pilot-friend's description of a yoke/joystick...
He said, "You pull it, to make houses smaller, and push it to make houses bigger!!"
Never discount pilot error. How many crashes have been at bloody air-shows as well,
when pilots push the limits, and have a bit too much testosterone!!   

[BravoV]

U.S.-made F-35s grounded in South Korea after malfunction forces fighter jet to make dramatic belly landing

-> https://www.cbsnews.com/news/f35-grounded-south-korea-malfunction-emergency-landing/


South Korean stealth fighter makes emergency 'belly landing'

-> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/01/05/asia/south-korea-f-35-fighter-jet-belly-landing-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

[Gyro]

It seems to be open season on recovering F35s from the bottom of the sea before the opposition can get their hands on them. Another "mishap during take-off", although this time from a US carrier, so no ramp.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60148482

Maybe they should start fitting aircraft carriers with camera guided grappling hooks (or stop putting secret technology in the planes!).

[coppercone2]

well, a few weeks ago there was some news reports about greatly enhanced Chinese electronic warfare capabilities in the south china sea area.. I wonder if that is related

https://www.csis.org/analysis/china-ramping-its-electronic-warfare-and-communications-capabilities-near-south-china-sea

[Gyro]

Or the rubber band snapped on their catapult! 


EDIT: Actually, looking again, the report says that seven sailors were injured when it hit the deck, so it was maybe either a catapult failure, causing it to bounce off the track or a plane problem on take-off causing it to abort and fail to land successfully back on the deck. No specific info on the pilot.

[jpanhalt]

The US Navy describes the US F-35 loss as a landing accident (https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2022/01/24/seven-sailors-injured-in-landing-mishap-aboard-carrier-carl-vinson/ ).

Other souses say the pilot made a "wanky" approach and hit the deck really hard.  I have never heard of a "wanky" approach.  My guess is inept, as in the pilot never got into stabilized approach.  Too slow and a too high in a brick could certainly end up in a hard landing.

EDIT: Posted at 4:37 PM EST (+5).  No idea why the time in the header appears on my screen as incorrect by one hour.