EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Balaur on December 04, 2010, 01:30:14 pm
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Hello everybody,
I bought some cheap RMA-223 flux on eBay and when finally it got home, I was somewhat surprised to see that the overall quality suggested a fake product.
After a 5-second search on Google, I have found that the all the RMA-223 flux products on eBay are likely fake.
This gentlemen provides some light into the issue:
http://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=article&name=fluxInfo (http://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=article&name=fluxInfo)
The version I got has the "Advanced" spelled right, but the "Colifornia" is still there. Also "harn" instead of "harm", "consuit" vs "consult", "canuse", "knomn", bad spacing, actual product quantity is about 6-7cl against the 10cc advertised, etc.
From a performance perspective, the product is not that bad, although is less wetting than the usual CIF products I use at work. At least it doesn't explode when heated.
Personally, I would had no qualms about buying a "Generic" rosin mildly activated flux (i.e. properly advertised and not faked) at that (very low) price point. I find the fake products plain stupid.
Also, you have to question the fakers "design flow" & business model. While I accept that the language barrier is huge, the spelling errors are blatant. Also, I hope that they do not have recurring business with this stupid approach. Or do they?
Cheers,
Dan
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RMA-223 is just a type name, rosin mildly activated, EN 29454-1 type 2.2.3.
The issue is not the "RMA-223" label. It seems your complain is really about that you got a fake "Amtech" product, right?
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Also, you have to question the fakers "design flow" & business model. While I accept that the language barrier is huge, the spelling errors are blatant. Also, I hope that they do not have recurring business with this stupid approach. Or do they?
I read somewhere (I thought it was Bunnie's blog but having trouble tracking it down) that some counterfeiters include a few deliberate 'mistakes' to observe (presumably their local) counterfeiting laws -- an identical clone would be classed as illegal, but if they can point to some number of differences between theirs and the official product they can call it an imitation and so it's legal. Of course, the people who the sell the fakes on aren't too fussed about telling their customers that they're buying imitations...
Wish I could turn up a cite for it to refresh my memory!
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RMA-223 is just a type name, rosin mildly activated, EN 29454-1 type 2.2.3.
The issue is not the "RMA-223" label. It seems your complain is really about that you got a fake "Amtech" product, right?
Well, maybe my post is not clear. I was looking for a RMA-223 flux, not specifically for an Amtech one.
However most (all?) RMA-223 flux on eBay (or at least to my searching abilities) is labeled as Amtech products. There are (from my side of the world) 182 RMA-223 products, and most of them sold from China/HK and clearly advertised as "Amtech", "USA-Made" or whatever. I have only found one UK vendor that seems to sell the original version.
As I said, I could be perfectly happy with a no-brand good RMA flux, but the sheer quantity of fakes is staggering.
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I read somewhere (I thought it was Bunnie's blog but having trouble tracking it down) that some counterfeiters include a few deliberate 'mistakes' to observe (presumably their local) counterfeiting laws -- an identical clone would be classed as illegal, but if they can point to some number of differences between theirs and the official product they can call it an imitation and so it's legal. Of course, the people who the sell the fakes on aren't too fussed about telling their customers that they're buying imitations...
Wish I could turn up a cite for it to refresh my memory!
A possible explanation, yes. Maybe later on, we will start seeing Antech, Amtec, Arntech, Fruke, Flulke, Weler, Weiler in the same fashion as all the sporting goods industry :)
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that's nothing new, i got from same dealer RM-223 with green label (looks like org. Amtech) and white label (with mis-spelt names).
Here a typical seller like the one who sold me "Amtech flux" - ebay 270632207212 (check the pics, one like org. amtech but the "final" product just something)
So which of them is original ? Probably none of them. But honetsly for me i didn't matter, they works sufficient.
Of course original Amtech is better and we know what inside, but you know - you get what you paid for.
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You may report the seller if you are not happy with the product you received, ebay should take the neccesary actions to avoid this type of fraud.
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You may report the seller if you are not happy with the product you received, ebay should take the neccesary actions to avoid this type of fraud.
but only if the manufacturer inform ebay, or at least a certified "ebay" distributor (which is in case of Amtec nobody).
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Don't tell me you purchased a flux pen that said to be an original and made in the USA; and yet, you purchased it from a seller who's in the orient. That's a big red flag to stay away. Like this: Read the listing it's funny. Made in usa and item location Hong Kong
http://cgi.ebay.com/1x-10ml-AMTECH-Soldering-BGA-Paste-Flux-RMA-223-ROHS-/330503276408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf387c778 (http://cgi.ebay.com/1x-10ml-AMTECH-Soldering-BGA-Paste-Flux-RMA-223-ROHS-/330503276408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf387c778)
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Anyways, here is the seller that I purchased my flux from. It took me countless hours to find an honest flux seller on ebay. And the price is right too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kester-186-RMA-Rosin-Flux-Pen-Solar-Panel-Cell-Tab-/280551755114?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4152300d6a (http://cgi.ebay.com/Kester-186-RMA-Rosin-Flux-Pen-Solar-Panel-Cell-Tab-/280551755114?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4152300d6a)
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Anyways, here is the seller that I purchased my flux from. It took me countless hours to find an honest flux seller on ebay. And the price is right too.
The only problem there is that seller only ships to the USA.
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in Europe at least one distributor with price informations:
http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/?search=amtech&page=1,20#search%3Damtech (http://www.tme.eu/en/katalog/?search=amtech&page=1,20#search%3Damtech)
they ships everywhere, but probably it would make no sense to order from outside Europe.
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Why not try the original rma-223 from AMTECH, there are many supplier who wholesale the original ones, seems not high price. I remembered one of them was SCOTLE, but I did not keep the web.