Author Topic: Farewell to the DSLR camera  (Read 10526 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PicuinoTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1072
  • Country: es
    • Picuino web
Farewell to the DSLR camera
« on: July 13, 2022, 09:30:43 pm »
https://medium.com/enrique-dans/farewell-to-the-dslr-camera-e1bcf0d8f9ad
"A brief note in Nikkei Asia, later denied by Nikon, announces the end of the development of new DSLR or reflex camera models by the company, to be replaced by mirrorless cameras..."



 

Online ejeffrey

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4034
  • Country: us
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2022, 10:45:17 pm »
Not surprising, mirrorless have already taken over the market.  Other than battery life there is no real advantage to DSLR over mirrorless from a technological standpoint and lots of advantages for mirrorless.
 

Offline nightfire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: de
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2022, 11:34:55 pm »
The demise of optical viewfinder cameras was to be seen about 10 years ago. Thom Hogan in his blog was one of the first to note and elaborate about the lack of understanding the established camera brands had to new challenges, especially for the role of software and a workflow.
Meaning: Most of the mainstream companies had really lost the contact to the customer and the way stuff has to be handled, and instead of listening to the trends, they continued to produce cameras with a technical better image quality, but otherwise no changes.
In the meantime, the lower end market acutally has been assimilated by smartphones, the whole area where workflow really matters still is not understood well by nearly all traditional camera manufacturers.

As a Nikon shooter for a long time, I still have some analog equipment with me, and what is nice that Nikon managed to be able to use lots of the old lenses from as far back as 1977 on modern DSLR, which can be benefical with some special setups. But, the writing was on the wall for a long time, and now Nikon as one of the last established companies has successfully turned to mirrorless with their Z-Series, and finally made lots of things right, after some "dipping the toe half-heartedly into the water" with the Nikon 1 Series failed miserably.
Actually, with the recent introduction of the Z30, Nikon has a full portfolio of cameras at their hands, from entry-level to pro body, and the lens setup (Note: Nikon always was an optical company, not necessarily a camera menufacturer) is something that begins to be useable for most needs. Still something in the DX/crop sensor setup that is desireable, but beginning to be reasonable.

Regarding optical viewfinders: They have still some value over mirrorless cameras in special situations, but as mirrorless is getting better at this stuff, it actually is more than useable in everydays shooting. For sports and wildlife photographers an optical viewfinder still has no lag, and in case of flash photography (fill flash etc.) there are moments where a mirrorless camera still does not displays the environment right. Also the battery life is better, which matters especially in nature photography when you have to pack light.

 
The following users thanked this post: SiliconWizard

Online mawyatt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4119
  • Country: us
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2022, 01:05:46 am »
Like you have been a Nikon user for a long time and still have a D500, D800, D800E, D850, Z7 and a bunch of F mount lenses and only one Z mount lens. We've used all these bodies with our pioneering chip imaging work over the past couple decades. Now find we are always "reaching" for the Z7 rather than any of the F mount DSLRs!!

Nikon has done a nice job with the newish Fresnel type longer lens. The 300mm F mount we have is superb and suspect the new Z mount types should be quite good as well.

Any future DLSR purchases will be mirrorless and likely Nikon Z type camera body or Z type lenses.

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2022, 06:54:10 am »
Yep. Z50 here. Love it. Absolutely perfect as a travel camera. Thing I was shocked at is how good the kit lenses are now. And also the low light performance.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 06:56:28 am by bd139 »
 

Offline nightfire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: de
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2022, 09:05:27 am »
The Nikon Kit lenses were always quite good, compared to some cheap stuff other manufacturers provided. But with the Z system, the game has been upped again a bit.

Basically, one could consider the old E-Series 50mm/1.8 as kit lens for Nikon cameras in the begin of the 1980ies- small lightweight lenses, intended for sale with the small entry-level models. Those were made with lots of plastic from the inside, which was frowned upon in japan, and had usually only single-coating on the glass surfaces, whereas the more expensive Nikkor branded lenses had multi-coating and massive metal insides.
So Nikon did the budget cuts at the right places without jeopardizing the optical quality too much.

I still have some 50mm/1.8 E series, which is small and lightweight, and gets regular use on a DSLR for portrait shooting, when I want to pack light, or capture some low contrast situation in sunlight due to the higher probability to flare- and create a look like in the 80ies pictures...
Optically, when handled right, those lenses are able to even make some very good pictures on todays DSLR.
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Online voltsandjolts

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2022, 10:42:33 am »
Isn't it harder to judge the quality of modern lenses, since much of the 'quality' comes from in-camera compensation, rather than outright optical quality? Whereas, when using older lenses you can be assured there are no hidden shenanigans. As long as you're happy with the result I guess it doesn't really matter :)
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2022, 10:49:29 am »
I think older lenses tended to have a hell of a lot more weird shenanigans going on. The corrections applied in body are usually for very minor distortion and vignetting and that's about it now because the lens engineering is better. People got used to being able to make corrections and see them as past of the post-processing workflow but now they are gone and that's where this noise comes from.

Your last point is spot on though. I know a lot of camera owners who can discuss the details but very few who can actually take a decent photo  :-DD
 

Online voltsandjolts

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2549
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2022, 11:06:17 am »
Well, I don't know enough to discuss the details and rarely take a decent photo, so I'm in the wrong thread here ;D

I have a crusty trusty old DSLR and I like the mirror clatter noise. It makes taking a photo somewhat real and mechanical, or even something more emotive, perhaps a last tenuous connection to the past 180 years of photography. I think I'd miss that with mirrorless. Like film, DSLRs will likely drag on and maybe ten years from now I'll get a cheap used D850!
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2022, 11:08:36 am »
My mirrorless has a shutter still and makes that noise  :)

In ten years I’ll get a cheap Z9 instead  :-DD

(I would love a D850 but can’t justify it)
 

Offline nightfire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: de
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2022, 04:57:54 pm »
I think older lenses tended to have a hell of a lot more weird shenanigans going on. The corrections applied in body are usually for very minor distortion and vignetting and that's about it now because the lens engineering is better. People got used to being able to make corrections and see them as past of the post-processing workflow but now they are gone and that's where this noise comes from.

Your last point is spot on though. I know a lot of camera owners who can discuss the details but very few who can actually take a decent photo  :-DD
Yes, the "character" attributed to old lenses are usually technical flaws that were (or had) to be incorporated into the design.
Nikon has made public some tales of the design of some legendary lenses, that shed some very good light on the way about 30-70 years ago technical things were constructed, that still can be used today- and with which efforts the engineers with the limited ressources of the past days were able to achieve some good results!

This said: Nikon has made some other leap with the Z lens setup- they are optically very good, and better in nearly every aspect against their predecessors of the F Mount.
If I were a professional, I would not hesitate to build a new setup with those lenses, as they make lots of things easier in difficult lighting situations.
But as a hobby photographer, the priorities are elsewhere, here the road is the target, to make the most of existing (or cheap to acquire) gear.
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline Neper

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 543
  • Country: de
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2022, 05:12:28 pm »
I couldn't care less about Nikon as long as Pentax go on making them.
If I knew everything I'd be starving because no-one could afford me.
 
The following users thanked this post: david77

Offline Zucca

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4611
  • Country: it
  • EE meid in Itali
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2022, 05:40:04 pm »
FUUU now I want a mirrorless and need to sell my DSLR.. I hate you all.
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline nightfire

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 587
  • Country: de
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2022, 05:46:01 pm »
 

Online mawyatt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4119
  • Country: us
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2022, 06:29:41 pm »
The Nikon Kit lenses were always quite good, compared to some cheap stuff other manufacturers provided. But with the Z system, the game has been upped again a bit.

Basically, one could consider the old E-Series 50mm/1.8 as kit lens for Nikon cameras in the begin of the 1980ies- small lightweight lenses, intended for sale with the small entry-level models. Those were made with lots of plastic from the inside, which was frowned upon in japan, and had usually only single-coating on the glass surfaces, whereas the more expensive Nikkor branded lenses had multi-coating and massive metal insides.
So Nikon did the budget cuts at the right places without jeopardizing the optical quality too much.

I still have some 50mm/1.8 E series, which is small and lightweight, and gets regular use on a DSLR for portrait shooting, when I want to pack light, or capture some low contrast situation in sunlight due to the higher probability to flare- and create a look like in the 80ies pictures...
Optically, when handled right, those lenses are able to even make some very good pictures on todays DSLR.

That old 50/1.8 was quite good, think we still have one!! The old Nikon 24-70 F2.8 and original 70-200 F2.8 VR were also good but heavy, we used these often on the D800 and D500 when they were introduced.

Used the old 24-70 F2.8 and D800 over a decade ago for a few images that are in the Huntington Gardens Museum Book shown, with up front was a 2 page spread on the Desert Gardens taken with an old 24-70 F2.8 & D800. BTW this image had such high DR that it required TIFF instead of JPEG, this was discovered during processing for the book printing, JPEG caused banding in the background sky, however since we always used Lossless TIFF for serious work, we had the original TIFF file!! Beautiful museum and gardens in Pasadena Ca. definitely worth visiting.

In another use of older Nikon lens with the D800 and D500 we did many of the images used in the booklet and displays for the World Offshore Racing held here in Clearwater, FL every year in September. We also used these old/new combos with some success at the Sebring ALMS Races in Sebring, Fl.

These older lenses did work well, however the newer replacements are better optically and lighter with much improved Vibration Reduction, especially the new Z types. Although we're not getting rid of the older Nikon and Nikkors just yet, they kinda remind of the old analog scopes, still have a couple Tek 2465's that we're not getting rid of just yet either :-+

Best,
« Last Edit: July 15, 2022, 01:17:56 am by mawyatt »
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
The following users thanked this post: bd139

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15797
  • Country: fr
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2022, 06:40:09 pm »
FUUU now I want a mirrorless and need to sell my DSLR.. I hate you all.

Because you think that's actually better? :-DD
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2022, 07:26:12 pm »
The VR in the cheap ass 250mm is pretty amazing.

Hand held… (phone resized it for ref)
 
The following users thanked this post: evb149, Fgrir, mawyatt

Online mawyatt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4119
  • Country: us
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2022, 07:46:39 pm »
Handheld...wow!!!

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2022, 07:48:58 pm »
I’d had a few beers when I took it so I had some VR in my arms too but it was surprising.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15797
  • Country: fr
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2022, 07:56:33 pm »
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2022, 08:16:24 pm »
Vindicated now (just got back from pub  :-DD)
 

Offline RoGeorge

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7012
  • Country: ro
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2022, 09:10:15 pm »
Hand held… (phone resized it for ref)

Handheld is easy since nowadays the image sensor is sited on top of a chicken head like this:  https://youtu.be/L9jhWTrv9rY  ;D
 
The following users thanked this post: Halcyon

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2022, 09:12:01 pm »
Actually no it isn't in my Z50. The sensor is static. The VR is entirely in the lens.

The only annoying bit is when the lens isn't powered the barrel clunks around as you're walking which is really bloody annoying when you're on a huge great long hike to somewhere to take photos of stuff.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15797
  • Country: fr
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2022, 09:30:41 pm »
So anyway, I am no professional photographer at all but I do think you tend to take "better" photos with an optical viewfinder. It's purely a "user interface" point. An optical view beats an indirect view through a camera and a display. It might not be the case at all for future generations when people will have become cyborgs, or something.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23099
  • Country: gb
Re: Farewell to the DSLR camera
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2022, 09:39:10 pm »
Definitely can't agree with that. You get to see what the sensor is seeing. That gives you a better chance to retake anything where you've blown out areas. Also on the rear screen of the camera you get a live histogram so you can actually manage exposure better.

Good example here. Contrast of this was extremely difficult to capture without reviewing it during the shot.



That was taken on a smartphone for ref, not a proper camera. But the point is it gives decent feedback instantly as to what you are taking rather than having to work with what you thought you took later.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf