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Fear of number 13...
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TimFox:
A classic Bob Newhart comedy routine has him playing the night watchman at the Empire State Building as King Kong climbs it holding Fay Wray.  Reporting the situation by telephone, he is asked how tall the monster is, and  replies, "It depends on whether we have a 13th floor".
GlennSprigg:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 19, 2020, 04:57:12 pm ---Most large buildings in the USA still skip the 13th floor, which is something I've always thought was silly because there's still a 13th floor, it's just called 14. Superstition is idiotic but seems to be an integral part of the human mind.

--- End quote ---

In DIVERSION again... (UhOh, it's what I do, hahaha)...  :D
In Australia, (I used to also be responsible for fire systems in multi-story buildings!), we used the 25m rule for many factors. Of course there are buildings of great height now, but previously, it might have been common for say a 10-story building. A 12/13/14 story building was rare! because over 25m ALL floors had to have hydrants/sprinklers etc, not just the ones above, because originally that was the max height that elevated platform ladders could reach!  Now, the same 25m rule has a different meaning. It means the max vertical distance that a person should have to travel, to exit the building in an emergency. What does that mean in relation to 'building-height' ??

It is from the FLOOR (your feet!) level of the TOF, (Topmost Occupied Floor), to the LOWEST point of egress. This does NOT include the likes of Plant-Rooms or Lift-Motor-Rooms (or towers etc) above, as people there are less common, and are technical people more accustomed to the building layout/safety. At the 'ground', there may be a 'lower' exit on one side of the building, if on sloping ground.  :P

Where they would often 'legally' come unstuck, is to finally utilize say a roof-top area for staff, or a top level gymnasium etc. (New TOF!).
Anyway... 13-floors was certainly not common for a long time here, due to such fit-out costs.  :phew:
Rick Law:

--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on April 19, 2020, 01:38:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 08:21:18 am ---Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature, nothing to do with stupidity or being backwards.
The same superstition is in China too, for number 14, which pronounces like "going to die". In many business building there is no floor 14, rather a floor 13A.
The Cantonese people particularly care about this. My company which is a shell company used as a legal contract shop front registered in HK is located on F13A of a building.
Number 4 being related to death is built in the language of Chinese and Japanese, but it seems like the Cantonese is particularly sensitive to this.
And it doesn't stop the Cantonese being the richest people in Eastern Asia. They tend to be the richest in their community even worldwide.

--- End quote ---

I have quite a few 'Asian' relatives, that have lovingly & welcomely come into our present family. It always gets me why/how they are so superstitious about certain numbers etc. But there is a WIDER concern I have for some of their 'beliefs'...

We all know about their vast interest in 'ancient' herbal medicines etc. and some of the things that they buy/desire/believe. And it usually goes without saying, that a lot of them have great business acumen, and are leaders in the world in regards to Electronics & Computer Programming etc. etc.  That's a 'given', and good luck to them!  However, that's why I don't understand SOME of them for having such naive and massively ignorant beliefs regarding some of their 'herbal' (animal/organic) purchases!!!  (May I explain one...)...

SOME, (even highly educated people), buy/use ground up Rhinoceros-Horn... (Sigh). Why??  Because the horns look 'Phallic', so they think it may alleviate their 'erectile' dis-functions etc.  (Sigh).  However, even totally junior organic people over the rest of the world, know & understand that it is made from nothing but fiber/hair!!!!!!  Ok, many centuries ago, they may not have understood that, but today they DO!!!
Today, the MASSIVE decline in Rhinoceros populations in Africa, is DIRECTLY attributed to this belief, and hence the monetary gain for Poachers to HUNT THEM !!   Without THAT, the whole problem goes away OVER NIGHT!!  This is fucking '2020' not '1250'. (Off soap box)  :-[

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Hunting down naturally occurring chemicals to cure illness is rather different than pure superstition like fear of number 13.  It does require faith that the data collected is largely correct rather than largely coincidental or imaginary (imaginary would be the placebo effect as we call it present day).

Aspirin for example - ancient Egyptians and ancient Chinese both found good use in certain tree-bark.  It is not until 19th/20th century chemistry that we now have Aspirin.  When applying remedies that "worked based on empirical evidence" and doing so without a clear understanding of the processes/chemistry involved would require a good amount of faith.  Mixing that kind of faith with superstition somehow doesn't seem fit.

At least for Chinese herbal medicine, it is not just knowing what natural material does what; knowing that is just a "mental" database lookup and that is the easy part.  Given that you are consuming "the medicine" in its natural form (ground/dry willow tree bark for example), you are not exactly consuming pure medical grade acetylsalicylic acid.  There will be many other substances in that tree-bark you consumed along with acetylsalicylic acid.   Each of these other substances will have its own side effects.  The harder part of herbal medicine is in controlling and balancing those side effect by yet other naturally occurring materials.

While we in the west often do things to take down a fever as soon as possible; where as Traditional Chinese medicine often would accelerate a fever by wrapping the patient with heavy blankets to keep the heat.  They did that based on empirical evidence that it helps but they sure did not understand immune systems as we do today.  Today, we know that our immune system works better at higher temperature and that is why evolution brought us the fever to begin with.[0]

Acupuncture is another "proven to do something" Traditional Chinese medicine stuff [1].  Present day explanation is that "it is kind of method of nerve stimulation."  I suppose we would agree that the chi/qi/chee (kind of like the force that is with you) is more or less rubbish.  So we know it does something but we don't know how it does that something.  That list of something that it could help with includes "Chemotherapy-induced and postoperative nausea and vomiting", "Dental pain", "Headaches, including tension headaches and migraines",  "Labor pain", "Menstrual cramps"...[2]

With a few thousand years of experience of collecting and applying empirical evidence, no doubt some are worthy stuff and some are mistakes yet to be discovered.  That said, to conflate herbal medicine with superstition would be a mistake committed.


References:
[#0] NCBI at NIH.gov publication: Fever and the thermal regulation of immunity: the immune system feels the heat
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4786079/

[#1] Johns Hopkins University Hospital / Johns Hopkins Health: What is acupuncture?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/acupuncture

[#2] The list of problems acupuncture may resolve was copy&pasted from the Mayo Clinic - full list is too long so pasted partial list only.  Full list and further descriptions here:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/acupuncture/about/pac-20392763

EDIT: Corrected typo
exe:

--- Quote from: blueskull on April 19, 2020, 08:21:18 am ---Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature

--- End quote ---

For numbers I'd say it's part of human culture. No-one would fear 13 before being explained its "meaning". Modern fears are based on instincts, but I wouldn't call them "natural". Numbers are pure abstraction, it's irrational to fear them, but good luck explaining this to people with numerphobia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskaidekaphobia).

Recently I heard a theory that our brain always in search for dangers, it's an instinctive behavior. If there is no real danger present, people start making it up.
Electro Detective:

--- Quote from: hamster_nz on April 19, 2020, 08:01:39 am ---
I'm just watching Apollo 13 on TV, and remember that growing up in the 70s the fear of number 13 seemed to be a real thing  (the phobia, that it) - talk of buildings skipping floor 13 because people would be spooked, and skipping house numbers.

Is this still a thing? Was it ever a thing? Or is it just a long forgotten craze phase like Bigfoot, UFOs and Pyramid Power?


--- End quote ---

13 and all the other hoaxes and fear jobs are done and over, and not a minute too soon  ::)

Corona is officially top dog now and beyond doubt, question or skeptism   >:D

Billions of hardcore news media circus believers and serial hypochondriacs can't be wrong   :popcorn:

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