Author Topic: Fear of number 13...  (Read 8158 times)

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Offline hamster_nzTopic starter

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Fear of number 13...
« on: April 19, 2020, 08:01:39 am »
I'm just watching Apollo 13 on TV, and remember that growing up in the 70s the fear of number 13 seemed to be a real thing  (the phobia, that it) - talk of buildings skipping floor 13 because people would be spooked, and skipping house numbers.

Is this still a thing? Was it ever a thing? Or is it just a long forgotten craze phase like Bigfoot, UFOs and Pyramid Power?
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Offline I wanted a rude username

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2020, 09:44:35 am »
That said, at least in Australia, all manner of old superstitions seem to have become rare over the past decades ... triskaidekaphobia among them.

The anti-science undercurrent that started in the 1970s has replaced them as the go-to irrationality.
 
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Offline hamster_nzTopic starter

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2020, 10:06:05 am »
Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature, nothing to do with stupidity or being backwards.

I don't think it is anything about people with superstitions being being stupid or backwards...

I'm more wondering if in the early 70s a large number of people believed the mission was jinxed because of it, or was it a jibe at part of popular culture of the day.

Judging by things like this, they were 100% serious:




I shouldn't really be surprised: "On Wednesday, prime minister Jacinda Ardern and Director General of Health Ashley Bloomfield were asked to respond to claims 5G is causing Covid-19."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018742340/5g-conspiracy-question-ignites-debate-on-press-performance
« Last Edit: April 19, 2020, 10:10:12 am by hamster_nz »
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Offline engrguy42

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2020, 10:47:41 am »
One of the great truths about human behavior that is well known in the psychological sciences but rarely mentioned is this:

"People believe what they want to believe. Facts are irrelevant".

We all suffer from it to one degree or another, but nobody will ever admit it. Feel free to search for research papers on the subject. There are tons.

So yeah, the list of things people believe about stuff that is in direct opposition to facts is perhaps the longest list in the universe.  :D
- The best engineers know enough to realize they don't know nuthin'...
- Those who agree with you can do no wrong. Those who disagree can do no right.
- I'm always amazed at how many people "already knew that" after you explain it to them in detail...
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2020, 01:38:40 pm »
Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature, nothing to do with stupidity or being backwards.
The same superstition is in China too, for number 14, which pronounces like "going to die". In many business building there is no floor 14, rather a floor 13A.
The Cantonese people particularly care about this. My company which is a shell company used as a legal contract shop front registered in HK is located on F13A of a building.
Number 4 being related to death is built in the language of Chinese and Japanese, but it seems like the Cantonese is particularly sensitive to this.
And it doesn't stop the Cantonese being the richest people in Eastern Asia. They tend to be the richest in their community even worldwide.

I have quite a few 'Asian' relatives, that have lovingly & welcomely come into our present family. It always gets me why/how they are so superstitious about certain numbers etc. But there is a WIDER concern I have for some of their 'beliefs'...

We all know about their vast interest in 'ancient' herbal medicines etc. and some of the things that they buy/desire/believe. And it usually goes without saying, that a lot of them have great business acumen, and are leaders in the world in regards to Electronics & Computer Programming etc. etc.  That's a 'given', and good luck to them!  However, that's why I don't understand SOME of them for having such naive and massively ignorant beliefs regarding some of their 'herbal' (animal/organic) purchases!!!  (May I explain one...)...

SOME, (even highly educated people), buy/use ground up Rhinoceros-Horn... (Sigh). Why??  Because the horns look 'Phallic', so they think it may alleviate their 'erectile' dis-functions etc.  (Sigh).  However, even totally junior organic people over the rest of the world, know & understand that it is made from nothing but fiber/hair!!!!!!  Ok, many centuries ago, they may not have understood that, but today they DO!!!
Today, the MASSIVE decline in Rhinoceros populations in Africa, is DIRECTLY attributed to this belief, and hence the monetary gain for Poachers to HUNT THEM !!   Without THAT, the whole problem goes away OVER NIGHT!!  This is fucking '2020' not '1250'. (Off soap box)  :-[
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2020, 02:39:18 pm »
SOME, (even highly educated people), buy/use ground up Rhinoceros-Horn... (Sigh). Why??

They may not be all that smart. Asia is big. You gotta know that there are some stupid people, and some might be even very highly educated and rich.
When I was in the US my Indian doctor with an MD certificate asked me to take curry powder pills to treat my swollen lymph node after MRI, blood test and a fairly complete cancer screening failed to find out the reason.

I know I was 'generalizing' when I said Asians. (Although 'some').
Don't get me wrong, as I said, there are a LOT of 'Asians' who are VERY smart, & technical. That's why I find it strange that even the very intelligent ones still hold on to certain old 'beliefs'. Quite a few of my Doctors/Specialists are of Asian/Indian decent and they know/care a lot. But I know of certain Asian 'relatives' who are almost millionaires at the top of their game, but still have these specific beliefs??
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2020, 03:04:54 pm »
I was born on May 13, so sometimes really great things happen with that number.  :P
 

Offline Ranayna

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2020, 03:14:02 pm »
Cisco at least does not like the number 13. Nor the number 14 it appears.
With their IOS operating system, they skipped both, and went from 12 to 15, some years back.
With their phone system software, they will be skipping the number 13 as well, going from the current version 12.5 directly to 14.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2020, 04:57:12 pm »
Most large buildings in the USA still skip the 13th floor, which is something I've always thought was silly because there's still a 13th floor, it's just called 14. Superstition is idiotic but seems to be an integral part of the human mind.
 
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Offline Benta

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2020, 06:32:26 pm »
Well, if you want to talk about irrationality, just go to the "creationists".   :palm:

 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2020, 03:06:16 pm »
A classic Bob Newhart comedy routine has him playing the night watchman at the Empire State Building as King Kong climbs it holding Fay Wray.  Reporting the situation by telephone, he is asked how tall the monster is, and  replies, "It depends on whether we have a 13th floor".
 
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2020, 01:06:28 pm »
Most large buildings in the USA still skip the 13th floor, which is something I've always thought was silly because there's still a 13th floor, it's just called 14. Superstition is idiotic but seems to be an integral part of the human mind.

In DIVERSION again... (UhOh, it's what I do, hahaha)...  :D
In Australia, (I used to also be responsible for fire systems in multi-story buildings!), we used the 25m rule for many factors. Of course there are buildings of great height now, but previously, it might have been common for say a 10-story building. A 12/13/14 story building was rare! because over 25m ALL floors had to have hydrants/sprinklers etc, not just the ones above, because originally that was the max height that elevated platform ladders could reach!  Now, the same 25m rule has a different meaning. It means the max vertical distance that a person should have to travel, to exit the building in an emergency. What does that mean in relation to 'building-height' ??

It is from the FLOOR (your feet!) level of the TOF, (Topmost Occupied Floor), to the LOWEST point of egress. This does NOT include the likes of Plant-Rooms or Lift-Motor-Rooms (or towers etc) above, as people there are less common, and are technical people more accustomed to the building layout/safety. At the 'ground', there may be a 'lower' exit on one side of the building, if on sloping ground.  :P

Where they would often 'legally' come unstuck, is to finally utilize say a roof-top area for staff, or a top level gymnasium etc. (New TOF!).
Anyway... 13-floors was certainly not common for a long time here, due to such fit-out costs.  :phew:
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2020, 06:31:41 am »
Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature, nothing to do with stupidity or being backwards.
The same superstition is in China too, for number 14, which pronounces like "going to die". In many business building there is no floor 14, rather a floor 13A.
The Cantonese people particularly care about this. My company which is a shell company used as a legal contract shop front registered in HK is located on F13A of a building.
Number 4 being related to death is built in the language of Chinese and Japanese, but it seems like the Cantonese is particularly sensitive to this.
And it doesn't stop the Cantonese being the richest people in Eastern Asia. They tend to be the richest in their community even worldwide.

I have quite a few 'Asian' relatives, that have lovingly & welcomely come into our present family. It always gets me why/how they are so superstitious about certain numbers etc. But there is a WIDER concern I have for some of their 'beliefs'...

We all know about their vast interest in 'ancient' herbal medicines etc. and some of the things that they buy/desire/believe. And it usually goes without saying, that a lot of them have great business acumen, and are leaders in the world in regards to Electronics & Computer Programming etc. etc.  That's a 'given', and good luck to them!  However, that's why I don't understand SOME of them for having such naive and massively ignorant beliefs regarding some of their 'herbal' (animal/organic) purchases!!!  (May I explain one...)...

SOME, (even highly educated people), buy/use ground up Rhinoceros-Horn... (Sigh). Why??  Because the horns look 'Phallic', so they think it may alleviate their 'erectile' dis-functions etc.  (Sigh).  However, even totally junior organic people over the rest of the world, know & understand that it is made from nothing but fiber/hair!!!!!!  Ok, many centuries ago, they may not have understood that, but today they DO!!!
Today, the MASSIVE decline in Rhinoceros populations in Africa, is DIRECTLY attributed to this belief, and hence the monetary gain for Poachers to HUNT THEM !!   Without THAT, the whole problem goes away OVER NIGHT!!  This is fucking '2020' not '1250'. (Off soap box)  :-[

Hunting down naturally occurring chemicals to cure illness is rather different than pure superstition like fear of number 13.  It does require faith that the data collected is largely correct rather than largely coincidental or imaginary (imaginary would be the placebo effect as we call it present day).

Aspirin for example - ancient Egyptians and ancient Chinese both found good use in certain tree-bark.  It is not until 19th/20th century chemistry that we now have Aspirin.  When applying remedies that "worked based on empirical evidence" and doing so without a clear understanding of the processes/chemistry involved would require a good amount of faith.  Mixing that kind of faith with superstition somehow doesn't seem fit.

At least for Chinese herbal medicine, it is not just knowing what natural material does what; knowing that is just a "mental" database lookup and that is the easy part.  Given that you are consuming "the medicine" in its natural form (ground/dry willow tree bark for example), you are not exactly consuming pure medical grade acetylsalicylic acid.  There will be many other substances in that tree-bark you consumed along with acetylsalicylic acid.   Each of these other substances will have its own side effects.  The harder part of herbal medicine is in controlling and balancing those side effect by yet other naturally occurring materials.

While we in the west often do things to take down a fever as soon as possible; where as Traditional Chinese medicine often would accelerate a fever by wrapping the patient with heavy blankets to keep the heat.  They did that based on empirical evidence that it helps but they sure did not understand immune systems as we do today.  Today, we know that our immune system works better at higher temperature and that is why evolution brought us the fever to begin with.[0]

Acupuncture is another "proven to do something" Traditional Chinese medicine stuff [1].  Present day explanation is that "it is kind of method of nerve stimulation."  I suppose we would agree that the chi/qi/chee (kind of like the force that is with you) is more or less rubbish.  So we know it does something but we don't know how it does that something.  That list of something that it could help with includes "Chemotherapy-induced and postoperative nausea and vomiting", "Dental pain", "Headaches, including tension headaches and migraines",  "Labor pain", "Menstrual cramps"...[2]

With a few thousand years of experience of collecting and applying empirical evidence, no doubt some are worthy stuff and some are mistakes yet to be discovered.  That said, to conflate herbal medicine with superstition would be a mistake committed.


References:
[#0] NCBI at NIH.gov publication: Fever and the thermal regulation of immunity: the immune system feels the heat
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4786079/

[#1] Johns Hopkins University Hospital / Johns Hopkins Health: What is acupuncture?
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/acupuncture

[#2] The list of problems acupuncture may resolve was copy&pasted from the Mayo Clinic - full list is too long so pasted partial list only.  Full list and further descriptions here:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/acupuncture/about/pac-20392763

EDIT: Corrected typo
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 07:27:52 am by Rick Law »
 

Offline exe

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2020, 08:55:57 am »
Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature

For numbers I'd say it's part of human culture. No-one would fear 13 before being explained its "meaning". Modern fears are based on instincts, but I wouldn't call them "natural". Numbers are pure abstraction, it's irrational to fear them, but good luck explaining this to people with numerphobia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triskaidekaphobia).

Recently I heard a theory that our brain always in search for dangers, it's an instinctive behavior. If there is no real danger present, people start making it up.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2020, 10:05:03 am »

I'm just watching Apollo 13 on TV, and remember that growing up in the 70s the fear of number 13 seemed to be a real thing  (the phobia, that it) - talk of buildings skipping floor 13 because people would be spooked, and skipping house numbers.

Is this still a thing? Was it ever a thing? Or is it just a long forgotten craze phase like Bigfoot, UFOs and Pyramid Power?



13 and all the other hoaxes and fear jobs are done and over, and not a minute too soon  ::)

Corona is officially top dog now and beyond doubt, question or skeptism   >:D

Billions of hardcore news media circus believers and serial hypochondriacs can't be wrong   :popcorn:

 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2020, 01:35:17 pm »
Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature, nothing to do with stupidity or being backwards.
The same superstition is in China too, for number 14, which pronounces like "going to die". In many business building there is no floor 14, rather a floor 13A.
The Cantonese people particularly care about this. My company which is a shell company used as a legal contract shop front registered in HK is located on F13A of a building.
Number 4 being related to death is built in the language of Chinese and Japanese, but it seems like the Cantonese is particularly sensitive to this.
And it doesn't stop the Cantonese being the richest people in Eastern Asia. They tend to be the richest in their community even worldwide.

Why do you equate hoarding money and greed with common sense? Some of the world's biggest fools are very wealthy. Unlucky numbers is mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus and downright stupidity, observed by fools. The world is full of gullible people without much common sense and no understanding of basic science or mathematics.

911 is wonderful number... it is a prime number!

73!
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2020, 01:37:14 pm »
One of the great truths about human behavior that is well known in the psychological sciences but rarely mentioned is this:

"People believe what they want to believe. Facts are irrelevant".

We all suffer from it to one degree or another, but nobody will ever admit it. Feel free to search for research papers on the subject. There are tons.

So yeah, the list of things people believe about stuff that is in direct opposition to facts is perhaps the longest list in the universe.  :D
Plenty of people admit it. A large part of science is devoted to hunting out this behaviour and reducing its impact. I think the same applies to many people on a personal level. Many strive to lead evidence based lives while also understanding they never fully will. Of course there are plenty of idiots who feel they are exceptions to the rule. Just ask people whether they're susceptible to advertisements.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2020, 01:38:03 pm »
13 and all the other hoaxes and fear jobs are done and over, and not a minute too soon  ::)

Corona is officially top dog now and beyond doubt, question or skeptism   >:D

Billions of hardcore news media circus believers and serial hypochondriacs can't be wrong   :popcorn:
Are you denying Corona?
 

Online Echo88

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2020, 05:29:52 pm »
Its not worth it Mr. Scram. He clearly surpassed us mentally long ago.
 
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2020, 09:13:33 pm »
Superstition can have a market, it's just part of human nature, nothing to do with stupidity or being backwards.
The same superstition is in China too, for number 14, which pronounces like "going to die". In many business building there is no floor 14, rather a floor 13A.
The Cantonese people particularly care about this. My company which is a shell company used as a legal contract shop front registered in HK is located on F13A of a building.
Number 4 being related to death is built in the language of Chinese and Japanese, but it seems like the Cantonese is particularly sensitive to this.
And it doesn't stop the Cantonese being the richest people in Eastern Asia. They tend to be the richest in their community even worldwide.

Why do you equate hoarding money and greed with common sense? Some of the world's biggest fools are very wealthy. Unlucky numbers is mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus and downright stupidity, observed by fools. The world is full of gullible people without much common sense and no understanding of basic science or mathematics.

911 is wonderful number... it is a prime number!

73!

Actually, that "fear of 14" or "fear of 4" is just not fear, it is in part good manners.

This other case recently on Yahoo news illustrates similar situation well:  "Amy Schumer had to rename her baby because his name sounded too much like 'genital'..."  So, baby Gene Attell Fischer was legally renamed "Gene David Fischer" at 11 months old.
https://news.yahoo.com/amy-schumer-had-rename-her-145513244.html

In Cantonese, the number four sounds the same as "death", "die"; and the number ten sounds the same as "must", "shall".  So, if you live on the 14th floor and someone asks:"what floor are you on?", a simple answer "14" sounds like you are replying with:"(you) must die".  Hence using "4", "40", or "14" is commonly avoided for good manners unless context clarification is affixed.  Of course, some would avoid the floor called "must die" --  why would I want to go to a floor where "(I) must die".  Such avoidance could be classified as superstitious with some justification.

Actually, more fun can be had with marriages.  It is always a good laugh to see a big sign on the restaurant entrance that sound like "Rotted Veggie Wedding Party" when a Mr. Mei and a Miss Choi wedded.

EDIT: Corrected a few typos
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 09:21:17 pm by Rick Law »
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2020, 11:00:47 pm »
Recently I heard a theory that our brain always in search for dangers, it's an instinctive behavior. If there is no real danger present, people start making it up.

I don't know if this is really what happens. I mean, the part that we would be actively looking for danger. Not convinced.

But I'm pretty convinced from all studies I've read that superstitions are a form of "autopilot" behavior to help us avoid dangerous situations indeed. The reason we use a lot of autopiloting for this is obvious: in dangerous situations, we may have no time to think. That surely comes from ancient times and we still have it. But don't think we don't *need* it anymore. We're actually on "autopilot" a lot of the time, and I think life would be exhausting if we weren't.

Superstitions are reassuring us. I personally think we don't use them to "make danger up" and then have a simple way of avoiding it, but just simply as a way to avoid potential, but real danger. The fact the danger itself has nothing to do with the superstition itself doesn't matter - it just lowers our stress level IMHO. In a way, even though superstitions seem not to make any sense and have any logic behind them, they are a way of making us feel like we have CONTROL over potential danger, instead of just being subjected to it like toys. I think it's a bit similar to religious faith. Although it may at first look like people are just putting their destiny in the hands of some higher being/concept, it also makes them feel like they are in CONTROL of their destiny - provided that they obey to some simple rules.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Offline drussell

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2020, 11:13:13 pm »
Most large buildings in the USA still skip the 13th floor, which is something I've always thought was silly because there's still a 13th floor, it's just called 14. Superstition is idiotic but seems to be an integral part of the human mind.

A few buildings use the physical 13th floor for mechanical, which may or may not be practical depending on the total height of the building.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2020, 12:04:24 am »


13 and all the other hoaxes and fear jobs are done and over, and not a minute too soon  ::)

Corona is officially top dog now and beyond doubt, question or skeptism   >:D

Billions of hardcore news media circus believers and serial hypochondriacs can't be wrong   :popcorn:


Are you denying Corona?



Are you still buying it?  :horse:

 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2020, 09:21:28 am »
Well, if you want to talk about irrationality, just go to the "creationists".   :palm:

Don't forget the flat earthers and anti-vaxxers!
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Fear of number 13...
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2020, 09:50:50 am »
Allegedly, Friday the 13th of October in 1307 was a bad day on earth for the Knights Templar's, when most of them were killed.

And since then the number 13 is a fearful and superstitious number.

Somehow I like instruments and lab equipment and calculators that have a 13 in their model number.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 


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