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File not found - Please tell me this is a joke...
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james_s:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 02, 2021, 08:10:08 am ---You mean like the kibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc? Yeah, those caught on like wildfire! ;)

--- End quote ---

I refuse to use those silly fake units, they were invented by the storage industry in response to lawsuits over the practice of defining megabytes as 1000 bytes to make the drives appear larger than they really are. Kilobyte is not a metric unit, yes it borrows the "kilo" word as a prefix but in the context of base 2 systems it has always meant 1024. Microsoft (so ~90% of all PCs in the world) and JEDEC still define a kilobyte as 1024 bytes and I had never even heard of a kibibyte until about a year ago and always assumed that KiB was just a European abbreviation for kilobyte. I don't know how anyone can even say kibibyte with a straight face, it sounds like a cat or dog treat. I've seen it claimed to reduce ambiguity but in reality it created ambiguity where there was none before. A kilobyte used to be universally understood to be 1024 bytes but now a small portion of people insist it to be 1000 bytes because they think it's a metric unit. So now we have metric kilobytes used mostly by pedants in Europe and standard kilobytes used by the rest of the world, with most people being totally unaware that they are not the same thing. Great, much less confusing.  :palm:
vk6zgo:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 02, 2021, 08:10:08 am ---
--- Quote from: vk6zgo on October 02, 2021, 05:59:57 am ---
--- Quote from: cgroen on September 30, 2021, 04:10:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: Benta on September 30, 2021, 03:51:13 pm ---
--- Quote from: cgroen on September 30, 2021, 02:36:20 pm ---(I even heard that some of them claims that a kilobyte is 1000 bytes  :-DD )

--- End quote ---

It is when you ask the hard drive manufacturers.

--- End quote ---

I know. They did it (way back) to get larger numbers, once all did it, no benefit. Its just plain stupid (most words needs a context, MASTER and SLAVE as well as KILO means something different depending on the context)

--- End quote ---

It all goes back to "computer people" ignoring the very long standing convention that "kilo' means 1000 times whatever the base quantity is, without any need of a "context".

Perhaps they should have invented a different word for "1024 bytes"----- sloppy word usage comes back to "bite us on the bum",  even if it is many years later.

--- End quote ---
You mean like the kibibyte, mebibyte, gibibyte, etc? Yeah, those caught on like wildfire! ;)

--- End quote ---

No, that was trying to fix a stuff up after the event----I meant right at the beginning.

Of course, probably, back in the day, most people in the field knew each other, & were happy using weird terminology.
When it went "mainstream" (>10,000 people), it was too late to change! ;D
Brumby:

--- Quote from: james_s on October 02, 2021, 07:27:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: CJay on October 01, 2021, 09:53:07 pm ---No, they weren't usually left on the server, they were deleted when downloaded, storage used to be expensive. You can still have your email client delete them.

--- End quote ---

If you use POP3 yes, but I've used IMAP since ~2002 which leaves a copy on the server and downloads a local copy. Storage for emails has never been an issue in as long as I've been using email, back in the day they were simple text, hundreds of emails would fit on a floppy disk. You *can* have your email client delete them from the server, but that isn't typically how it works anymore and I see few reasons for doing so.

--- End quote ---
What YOU use is not a good basis upon which to make broad statements that imply other options are never used (which is what your original comment quite clearly expressed).

I have several email accounts for which I am responsible and I have set up POP3 for some and IMAP for others.  Each has their reasons for the choice.

When we are discussing matters such as we are seeing in this thread, please keep personal use or preferences clearly identified as such.  Don't make sweeping statements ... they are almost certain to be wrong - and more often that one might care to admit.
Brumby:

--- Quote from: magic on October 01, 2021, 07:35:53 am ---I have no problem with people who grew up in the past millennium and never caught up.
--- End quote ---
Indeed .... they seemed to have survived pretty well AND provided the environment that allowed the "Information Age" to thrive.


--- Quote ---But kids that live glued up to their spyphones and never stop to consider where the data go, that's a different matter.

--- End quote ---
I could not disagree more.

When I first started getting into computers, physical location of data was part of the planning process.  In my first job, I worked on an IBM mainframe and you specified the location of the tracks to be used for each file.  The same file would always be located in exactly the same place.

When I moved to a company that had implemented the next evolution, specifying the file location was simply given with pack name and size.  You no longer had to know where the data was on that volume - you had to trust that the computer would keep track of that.  This was very unnerving at first, but I got used to it.

THIS is the start of travelling down the path that we find ourselves in today.  Physical location of data became less important, as the capabilities of system software to keep track of it improved to the point where the biggest question is "Do I have enough space on my 4TB drive?"  Then we step into the realm of internet connected storage - remote servers, off site backups, repositories and that nebulous concept of "the cloud".

Software has evolved to blur the edges, so that we can refer to a file on our own hard drive or somewhere in the cloud with pretty much the same ease.  For those who are not tech savvy, this makes using computing devices so much easier - as long as they follow the corporate guidelines and trust those who set them up.  They no longer NEED to understand any detail in order to use those resources - so why would they even try?  When the magic saviour of data - aka "syncing" - that makes the loss of a physical device inconsequential (other than the purchase cost of a replacement) is added into the mix, many will just give control of their data over to the corporate beast without considering the implications - not just because it's easier, but because they don't have the skills to understand anything more than the marketing spiel.  The "trust" issue is dismissed in the direction of "If they screw up, they'll get sued".

The evolution of the motor vehicle is a perfect parallel.  When they first appeared, you would not only need to know how to drive it, you would need to know how to fault find and fix it.  These days, that is no longer the case ... and, in fact, manufacturers are now adding systems that make it more and more difficult, if not impossible, to fix vehicles.

Why would kids "never stop to consider where the data go"...?  It's very simple.  They don't need to.
CJay:

--- Quote from: james_s on October 02, 2021, 07:27:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: CJay on October 01, 2021, 09:53:07 pm ---No, they weren't usually left on the server, they were deleted when downloaded, storage used to be expensive. You can still have your email client delete them.

--- End quote ---

If you use POP3 yes
--- End quote ---
Which the vast majority of older users will have been doing at some point because POP3 was what was recommended to the vast majority of internet users.

It's still in widespread use to this day.


--- Quote from: james_s on October 02, 2021, 07:27:17 pm ---, but I've used IMAP since ~2002 which leaves a copy on the server and downloads a local copy. Storage for emails has never been an issue in as long as I've been using email, back in the day they were simple text, hundreds of emails would fit on a floppy disk. You *can* have your email client delete them from the server, but that isn't typically how it works anymore and I see few reasons for doing so.

--- End quote ---
Just because *you* do something a certain way doesn't mean everyone else does it the same way, it doesn't mean it's the right way, it's just the way *you* do it.

And again, as you say, IMAP can delete mail from a server, so 'can you transfer my emails' is a valid question.

Pretty much nobody will have uploaded all their downloaded old emails back onto a mail server so, again, if you have old email archives, it's a valid question.

FYI, been 'doing email' since Netware 3.12 in the early 90s, have been around the block more than a few times with this
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