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First house for a young man

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cdev:
Quote from: rstofer on Today at 09:01:47>I might be a stockholder in every one of the companies expanding overseas.  I didn't buy their stock just because I'm a nice guy, I want an increasing stock price. 


There is much more to this than that, what's happening is a system has been created that lets rich people rip off the rest of the planet Especially in the US.

>Otherwise, I'm going to take my money and go elsewhere.  Do whatever it takes to make my stock value increase!  I'm not in the charity business. Greed is good!


Neither are the people of this country, why should we subsidize wealthy speculators?

As to the bank bail-outs, let's not forget that the .gov TOLD Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac to write non-conforming loans and managed to change the banking regulations such that banks could make similar loans with lots of encouragement.  This whole thing was a .gov experiment that backfired.  Of course the .gov has some responsibility.


The people who made a killing should be made to repay the country from their own swiss bank accounts.

Nobody wanted what they did and they did it to line their own pockets. that means they are the ones who should pay, not us.

Thats why the people of Greece and Iceland were literally up in arms, because a few people wanted to steal their retirement to cover the asses of big banks and big bankers.
 
The Clinton Administration (which was notoriously corrupt) created a global trade agreement on services which basically gave the big banks carte blanche to steal in unauditable ways by limiting any checks on them. In a single line on the last page of a appendix to a long and boring document filed in Geneva, not in the US , they claimed that this GATS agreement required that the Glass-Steagall Act be eliminated. So in 1999 they did. Now the GOP want to do essentially the same thing to Dodd Frank, for the same reason.

Partners in dishonesty.

Nobody complained when home construction was at an all time high.  Everybody was making money!

Thats not true. Millions lost their entire life savings. The shaft stripped entire communities of their homes.
Globally, billions of people ended up paying for this tiny group of people to make a killing and walk away scot-free.


The stock market was at record highs, home sales were at record highs as were prices.  Money way easy to get thanks to .gov and non-conforming loans.  What could possibly go wrong?

Famous last words.

It's like musical chairs:  When the music stops, somebody won't have a place to sit.

It wont always be the other guy who pays the price. Statistics show that.

Had their not been bailouts, the banking failure would make 1929 look like a family picnic.  Everything would have crashed, including my retirement. 

Learn about austerity. THAT will eat up your retirement savings. It will strip everybody of everything thats not nailed down, EXCEPT for those responsible. thats how it works. And then you wont be happy. When the veil falls away and you see them for what they are. But by then it will be too late.


The way things look now, the same people will be sitting on a beach somewhere and laughing at all of us then.

As it is, I had a few lean years in the stock market.  These things are worrisome when you're retired because you simply don't have much time to recover.  Allowing the banks to fail was simply not an option.  We would have taken the rest of the world with us.  As it is, many countries haven't fully recovered yet.

In the neighborhood I used to live in on my way to work or going out for walks early in the morning I would see, often impeccably dressed senior citizens, fishing food out of restaurant garbage cans.

When you lose 20% on an investment, you need to make 25% to recover.  If you lose 50%, you need 100% to recover.  Just something to keep in mind.

While we discuss this, jobs are vanishing at an exponentially increasing rate, so the ability more and more people have to work to recover (the only way most people earn money) is becoming more and more elusive for many. Without investing in more education for our country, we're going to run into a real impasse. 

At that point, most investments will crash, home values will crash. You cant have a whole country of people hoping to sell at the same time without values crashing. Pretty much everybody here can see that we're all headed towards a single global society because we're living it and we can see thats just the way it is. But that also means wages will become more similar everywhere which means wages here will fall, a lot. Equal pay for equal work. That could work out if its gradual only if corporations and those who enable them stop what theyre doing to the rest of the planet. And trade deals that are forcing countries to crapify their healthcare and education and water systems so that corporations can milk them will have to end.

The problem is NOT the poor or anybody else, its THE CORPORATE PILLAGERS. And they are not people, they deserve no personhood, their money is not free speech. Its poison for democracy.

Corporations are an artificial construct, a legal fiction and a world ruled by them will be horrible for everybody, especially those who run them, especially for even those doing well within it because of the brutal competition. Their numbers will constantly be shrinking as more and more of them as well as things that matter, are sacrificed to keep them unaccountable and their Ponzi scheme growing for those on top.

That will be a very very unhealthy and stressful world for all of us.To give one example, their "harmonisation" of regulations, downward. Safety regulations should improve or all society pays a very high, increasingly costly price when people are poisoned by bio- persistant endocrine disrupters..

Thats not a business opportunity- its a crime and its avoidable, you should know, however, that they who conrtol governments have decided they want a decline, instead of rising standards of living not only do they expect a race to the bottom on wages and working conditions and extreme poverty and shorter lifespans for most people, they are getting it set up so they make a killing on that too, by privatizing everything, including clean water and likely soon, air.

Thats what they want, even though logic dictates that technology's gifts should be shared, resulting in improved standards of living and growing lifespans and people having more and more time.

They don't want that because they claim it cheats them of the insanely high profits they feel entitled to, as wages drop towards zero and poor people of the countries of the world fight one another for the vanishing jobs - while they cash in.  And their bretheren in the developing countries, already fat from having impoverished their own people, want in on the action, so they plan to give them, our jobs, perhaps even Blueskull's future hypothetical postdoc - to temp out.

Every good deal is under attack by Wall Street. "Too generous".

The people of the world are too generous, but dont know it. Because we don't know we're being stolen from.

rstofer:

--- Quote from: cdev on July 06, 2017, 04:42:08 pm ---While we discuss this, jobs are vanishing at an exponentially increasing rate, so the ability more and more people have to work to recover (the only way most people earn money) is becoming more and more elusive for many. Without investing in more education for our country, we're going to run into a real impasse. 

--- End quote ---

Absolutely there is a skills gap!  We have a large segment of the population that doesn't have an education, nobody in their family has ever had an education and they aren't going to change course.  They are no longer employable.

But then you have GM CEO complaining that they can't hire enough coders.  Why aren't there enough coders?  Well, it's a lot of work to learn the trade!  Welfare is easier.

We spend about $620 Billion per year on primary and secondary education without tangible results (2012-2013).  How much more should we spend?  Do we double the spending?  Triple it?  We're talking about $12k per student per year.  The public education system is a failure and it always will be.  Schools are plugged up with students who don't want to learn and teachers who don't teach but are well protected by their unions.  The unions, in turn, have massive influence on their state and local elected officials.

I must say, public education rose to the challenge when Russia launched Sputnik.  The next day, math became the most important topic in 6th grade!  We are still the only country to land on the moon and return.  Six flights with 12 astronauts having walked the surface.

Maybe Sputnik is the reason the boomers are the best educated and most productive generation the world has ever seen.

--- Quote ---The present generation of middle age, the offspring of the “Greatest Generation” of the depression and World War II years, will be the healthiest, best educated, wealthiest, and most productive older generation America has ever had. This is very good news. The news is all the better in that this coming older generation will exert a powerful influence on the policies, priorities, and values of the United States.

--- End quote ---
George McGovern

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-mcgovern/hey-baby-boomers-welcome-_1_b_16947.html

We may be old but we vote!  Every election for the last 50 years!

cdev:
A lot of young people here would jump at the chance of being able to learn computer science or engineering.

They would jump at the remedial math they would need.  they would do it. But, the powers that be dont want it. They want everybody except them to be at a disadvantage of some kind. That means they want foreign workforces whose presence depends on a job thats lacking the normal level of freedom to change jobs. In the normal world, when people learn all sorts of new skills, they get paid more. Not with l-1 visa temp jobs. They are six year contracts and the wage is negotiated at the start and doesnt go up.

Its not based on prevailing wages like H1B jobs are. In other words, H1B jobs are seen in some circles as too good a deal, not as too bad a deal. The lure of abnormally cheap labor is a lot like slavery, its a corrupting influence.


The people who tell us that there are no Americans (or smart young Chinese not laboring under an artificial handicap) who want those jobs have already traded those jobs away in all but deed - they used them as virtual IOUs to get what they wanted from other countries for two decades, making themselves rich, (the people who cashed in did it personally, not nationally) and the cover story now is the afterthought, simply the last lie in a long long chain of lies, and of course, confident that nobody will call them oyt on anything, they are trying to craft a story to fit what they have already done behind the scenes.

Mode Four is a means of having a workforce that cant bargain for better wages or conditions. Pushing down wages in a race to the bottom.
In education, they want a shift to corporate ownership. Think "ITT Technical institute" on a massive scale, and more expensive, but with a foreign workforce here being paid wages that are somewhere between wages here (possibly even below US minimum wage) and wages in the corporations home country, the foreign corporation with workers here temporarily becomes a means of bypassing all sorts of laws by the expediency of trade rules..

Mode Four is based on the Middle Eastern kafala system..

 "modern day slavery" is what those jobs have been called, with justification.

   You have to have some personal experience with pathological liars before you realize how dishonest they are. Their entire business model depends on milking information gradients in the worst possible ways, the entire planet being successfully shafted by them, so, think, what things have to happen for that to work.  #1 thing, their target audience, which is essentially the 90% of all of us who dont have broken consciences, well the subset of that group who are well to do and influential, rich people with consciences all around the world, they are trying to justify their scheme to them, not us as a whole.

And they do that by hiding all of it and only revealing little things at a time, and spinning them dishonestly in a false narrative worthy of North Korea. Its that complicated and that wrong. (not just evil, factually wrong)

Those people are being trained to see the victims, (us, the middele class and upwardly mobile poor of the world, who otherwise would have risen higher) as deserving of every misfortune we got. 

So, a relentless spin machine has likely been churning on this for decades. Its trying to spin the changes they want as benefiting the poor of the developing world (the trunk of the elephant) while ignoring the fact that the tip of the elephants trunk is rising ever higher at an dizzying rate, we're supposed to think that the loss of those in the trunk area the top qunitile minus its richest 1%, will go to those in the bottom 4/5 when it will actually go to the top 1%.

Look at what they've done with health care. Whats their real plan? Its already there in the GATS and in the WTO Government Procurement Agreement- they want people who get subsidies to get their care, at least any hospitalization, overseas. they want to resell those services. Then they can use those patients as bargaining chips.

According to R. (a WTO official) countries that have committed health insurance in their existing commitments implicitly agree that their health insurance must become portable. That means us.

These deals trade various concessions, just like a poker game.

here are the four modes of supply which are traded.
http://www.slideshare.net/GitanjaliMaria/four-modes-of-wto

our drug companies might gain a right to buy up shares in ownership of firms that make generic drugs overseas, lowering the prices of drugs generally. US firms would essentially get a right to eliminate their compatition, under the guise of increasing competition. Thats how these things work.

Countries that become dependent on us for jobs are less likely to develop their own businesses at home that compete with us.

here is India's argument for more Mode Four to the WTO. (several years ago because thats when this debate was happening)

http://web.archive.org/web/20090410103914/http://commerce.nic.in/wto_sub/Invest/sub_invest-W39.htm

My main objection to all this is that it cheats a great many groups of people of their futures, keeping a few already insanely wealthy groups of people's children on top, while jobs are going away. Lying to the planet about how its being done, and stealing democracy.

A good example here in the US is health care. The real reason our healthcare situation has nothing to do with the things they say. instead, a deal was made in the WTO. And US patients are now essentially pawns in this global game. Bargaining chips.

So, both parties are shamelessly lying.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: rstofer on July 05, 2017, 09:51:38 pm ---ARMs were, and still are, about greed!  The lender wants a high rate of return later on and the buyer wants to buy more house than they can afford so they can sell it and reap a windfall.  The bond holders (buyers of Mortgage Backed Securities) wanted a safe investment that paid a lot of interest/dividends.

Borrowers simply have to read the fine print!

--- End quote ---
I strongly disagree. If you buy a product it should not be designed to bite you in the ass (like a gun which fires backward). You shouldn't need a PhD in economics to borrow money for a house. Unfortunately in the 1990's and early 2000's a lot of financial products have been designed in a way they where only proffitable to the banks/insurance companies and over here banks and insurance companies are paying deerly for that because the terms where not clear enough. All in all it is very important to strongly regulate the financial sector so they only offer products which benefit both the bank/insurance company and the customer. Only then you will have a financial system which functions properly and isn't prone to collapsing.

Nusa:
A bit too much TLDR here. If you could make your points with fewer words, I might read them.

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