EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: edy on May 06, 2016, 08:30:39 pm
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Hi everyone,
I'd like some advice on the best fitness tracker for my wife, as her birthday is coming up. I've done some of my own research and have come up with a feature list which I think is important to her, but may not be important at all. I'm sure many of you who have owned these have a better grasp of what is useful and what is not, and you can let me know if I am thinking along the right track.
I'm a bit confused as to the entire genre, to be honest. Most professional fitness people I've spoken to don't think there is any utility to these devices. I'm sure there is some novelty and for people who need motivation or feedback it helps. I'm not sure, I don't have any experience with them at all. I am also not sure about how much of it is software-related and how much of the benefit is the device itself.
A bit of background... My wife goes to the gym regularly, she usually brings her iPhone 5c along with her, I guess to listen to music and answer calls. In the gym it is mostly exercise machines, cycling ("spinning") and other machines. She does not run around outside (location stays generally static). She is generally fit and in good shape.
The features I think would be helpful is (and correct me if I'm wrong):
a) heart rate monitor (how important is this?)
b) some notification ability if the phone gets a call
c) analysis features with app on phone
Things I am in doubt about:
a) 24-hour a day tracking/sleep tracking (is this important?)
b) large display to use as a regular smartwatch
c) GPS capability
My gut feeling is that it should be reliable, take some abuse, waterproof (is this a deal-breaker?). A larger display would be nice but not if it easily gets the screen cracked or makes the watch too bulky. My wife has small wrists... so I thinkg the smaller and lighter the better. The point of a heart-rate monitor is that it can tell more about your cardiac workout, and not just "movement". Isn't that important? I'm not so sure about the GPS because my wife is not running so it would mostly just stay in one location in the gym.
I was "hinted" about getting a Fitbit Blaze but my reservations on seeing video reviews is that it tries to be a smartwatch and is larger, a bit bulkier, needs to be removed from the strap each time you want to charge it, is not waterproof, and is a bit up there price wise. I was looking at the Fitbit Charge HR but lots of negative reviews on reliability. They are smaller displays but you lose out on all the smartwatch functionality, also I think it is not waterproof.
The other brand I was looking at is Garmin Vivosmart HR. It is waterproof, seems to be not too cumbersome, the display is larger than Fitbit Charge HR, allows notifications from phone, yet smaller than Fitbit Blaze. Costs somewhere in between the 2 of them.
Then there's the Basis Peak, it's waterproof but looks a bit larger and more square. May not be as appealing for women with small wrists. Then there's Polar watches, like A360, which is not even available in my area at any local stores. There's the TomTom Cardio watches but price point is getting higher, not sure if it is the most comfortable or compact thing out there for my wife.
:-//
Not sure what to do. I feel like giving up and telling my wife not to even bother right now with this market segment. Is it just an excuse to spend money for the sake of a gift? Do I have all my priorities with feature-set all upside-down, and should be looking at different products? Any help would be appreciated.
Of course, if I go any other route than the "Blaze" she hinted she wanted, I am going to look like the jerk who got her the cheaper version to save a buck, not because I actually wanted to find a better value product. If I tell her not to bother with a fitness tracker at all until the market matures some more, I'll have to find her another gift. Or I may end up in the dog-house and buying an Apple Watch to redeem myself. :)
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Firstly, I do not own one, so this reply probably won't be of much value to your decision. I recently spent a while googling such devices (teardowns mostly.. sad as that is) because there is always some pressure to have the latest tech, so wanted to find out if there was any merit to such devices. My conclusion? not really.
Heart rate monitoring is very useful, as peak heart rate is a good proxy for intensity of exercise, and trends for reducing resting heart rate. But in practical terms, I don't think many devices measure this continuously - it can take a minute to get an average reading - so it is fine for measuring before, and after. Some use the optical approach on the back of the watch and claim to measure blood oxygen saturation (integrated devices often measure both, as both look at absorption at different wavelengths). Whilst I'm sure the heart rate measurement would be accurate, oxygen saturation is generally between 95 and 99%, so really doesn't tell you much except whether or not you have a serious condition.
I looked at the sensors in these things and there is really only 3 I could find. Pulse Oximetry (above), accelerometer for motion/steps, and GPS. The GPS I would say is somewhat pointless, as most are tethered to a phone anyway (these probably are for standalone applications). This just leaves the accelerometer. There are many claims made for fitness devices but ultimately, they only have the above to work with so can only really tell you certain things. 'Calories burned' is something that requires lots of parameters input by the user, and still is generally very inaccurate.
The 'sleep' tracking, simply measures movements during the night to try and guess what state of sleep one is in - apparently few care about the actual data, and just the fact you have to actively tell it when you go to bed, and when you get up (so it can distinguish between sleep movements, and waking movements)... so the technology isn't really used because you might as well just mark the time on your phone. Hardly the most reliable source: http://www.wellocracy.com/2013/12/insights-diy-sleep-trackers-sleep-specialist/ (http://www.wellocracy.com/2013/12/insights-diy-sleep-trackers-sleep-specialist/)
With all of that said, even if these fit watches are just a couple of sensors that feed into dubious algorithms, that pretty much 'make up' information, the novelty of such a device can make people change their habits. One could argue you could make a dummy watch that just creates random data and it may actually help people get fitter because it is a wearable reminder of the activity of exercise. It probably also gets people moving, highlights that they go to bed later than they should, or sleep in over the weekend (long term trends are something we are terrible at keeping track of without actually writing ti down).
So the priorities, if *I* was to buy it as a present (not trying to make it about me!) is... convenience - (battery life, size, weight) then the one she hinted at, then price, then features :) Its the same with cars, phones etc.. few use all the features but are much happier knowing they 'have them'. But they still make people happy.
If anyone has good evidence these can actually accurately calculate the plethora of statistics they claim to do, please chime in. I'm not a runner, so I wouldn't know what I would 'want' (save maybe, distance and time = map and watch).
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I agree, I don't see the massive utility especially when it comes to justifying the high price. If you are going to exercise, you exercise anyways. Does the device help motivate some people? Maybe, the app coaching part could. Does it add a "novelty" factor? Sure it makes people want to exercise because you get to play with a cool gadget. Does the information, as erroneous and inaccurate and manipulated by algorithms really provide information that will help you change anything? I'm not sure.
The advantage I guess of having the "smartwatch" with fitness tracking functionality (versus a fitness tracker with a bit of smartwatch) is that it can at least be used as a smartwatch all day long, whether you are actively exercising or not, and can help with phone notifications and other information. I don't think anyone cares to know how many calories they burn during the day walking around, working, driving, sleeping. They are doing that anyways... tracking it will not be a good measure, just moving around your arms a bit more or less will greatly affect the results. You can tell how much you sleep, most of us are sleep deprived as it is, just by the time you go to sleep and wake up... and how many coffees you need to keep alive during the day.
As with most gifts, I shouldn't think too much about it. I like to research my purchase decisions, but many people are impulse buyers. I think no matter what I get it will be obsolete very soon. I guess I should consider whether this is something I may wear in the future when she tires of it or wants some new gadget. Personally I feel it's money down the drain, but then again, I feel the same about jewelry... especially diamonds. Same goes for over-priced fragrances, but men will probably never understand these things. :)
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Hey! This is my time to shine! I used to architect and design wearables for "one of the major players" until recently.
Cool little things, but not nearly as interesting as you'd think from an EE perspective.
Anyhow.
I'm a bit confused as to the entire genre, to be honest. Most professional fitness people I've spoken to don't think there is any utility to these devices. I'm sure there is some novelty and for people who need motivation or feedback it helps. I'm not sure, I don't have any experience with them at all. I am also not sure about how much of it is software-related and how much of the benefit is the device itself.
True, for hardcore im-going-to-run-a-marathon type of exercise, these products will not suffice. A Garmin Forerunner 620 or similar device with continous GPS and heartrate is a much better fit for that crowd.
The heartrate monitoring in the wearables you're talking about only grabs a sample every 60 seconds or so, due to battery limitations. This isn't quick enough to tell you (warn you) if you're exercising outside of your optimal heartrate, or the recovery-time you have after you stop running.
Also, the optical heartrate monitors have _huge_ error-margins in their readings. +-10-15% was common about a year ago, and I doubt it has gotten much better. Also, the errors go way up (or they stop working completely) if you move around too much or sweat. They also need to be strapped quite hard against your wrist.
Basically, its a gimmic to one-up the other manufacturers spec-sheets. I'd say its use is minimal at best to the end-user, regardless if they're excercising or not.
Now, on the other hand, heartrate monitoring _is_ very useful if you're excercising, but then you should go the chest-strap route. They're much more accurate, and work fine when you're moving about and sweating.
The features I think would be helpful is (and correct me if I'm wrong):
a) heart rate monitor (how important is this?)
b) some notification ability if the phone gets a call
c) analysis features with app on phone
a) HR monitor would be very useful if it worked. It simply doesn't in the wrist-worn devices.
b) This is very convenient, but I'm assuming you're talking outside of the gym then? Are you sure the devices matches all of your wives outfits? ;)
c) Pretty much all of them have this. Some better, some worse. Personally, I like Garmins phone-software (nope, those weren't the ones I worked for), as it is filled with challenges and competitions.
If she's the least bit competitive, she'd enjoy that.
Things I am in doubt about:
a) 24-hour a day tracking/sleep tracking (is this important?)
b) large display to use as a regular smartwatch
c) GPS capability
a) Tracking during the day is pretty nice. It gives you revelations like "am I moving as much as I think?", and "holy crap, I don't move at all during the weekends", or "today was a lazy day". The sleep-tracking is _complete_ hokum and male bovine excrement. It simply doesn't work, and no-ones implementations have any scientific merit.
b) Large display is always nice, so you can more quickly see the information you're looking for. However, big display = big device. Most women doesn't like big "watches", but yours might be different. :)
c) Unless she is running outdoors, the treadmill or spinning-cycle she's using will do the same for her, I.e, keep track of distance.
I was "hinted" about getting a Fitbit Blaze ....
I guess you know what you'll be getting her then. :)
In all seriousness though. Wearables are a thing that seems like a really good idea, and they're quite fun when you first get them, but I've yet to see someone use them for more than 6 months.. They become a bit of a chore, and once you stop using them, they become like a nagging mother-in-law. "You didn't excercise enough this week" "You won't accomplish your challenges", etc.
Now, as for the birthday conundrum.. If she listens to music at the gym, does she have a pair of nice (as in, comfortable, wireless) headphones?
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I like wearables and such (have tried most of the smartwatches of these past few years) but I won't be of good advice since the health/fitness tracking is the one thing I always disable or at least never look at mostly because of the below... I know I don't exercise, becasue I bloody hate it :D
They become a bit of a chore, and once you stop using them, they become like a nagging mother-in-law. "You didn't excercise enough this week" "You won't accomplish your challenges", etc.
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STATUS UPDATE:
Ok, so I ended up buying the Fitbit Blaze..... She tried it on at home and it was very big. She has *tiny* wrists. So we went back to the store, and after some cajoling, we ended up getting the Apple Watch (38mm)! :palm: She has an iPhone anyways. She ended up getting this one, as she liked the color combination:
(http://store.storeimages.cdn-apple.com/4973/as-images.apple.com/is/image/AppleInc/aos/published/images/s/38/s38rg/sbml/s38rg-sbml-sel-201603?wid=424&hei=424&fmt=jpeg&qlt=95&op_sharpen=0&resMode=bicub&op_usm=0.5,0.5,0,0&iccEmbed=0&layer=comp&.v=4aylZ2)
Anyways, she's had it a few days and absolutely loves the thing. She likes the style and that she can wear it to work, gym or almost on any occasion. Nevermind it cost 2x the cost of Fitbit Blaze, and about 3-4x what I was actually willing to spend... but happy wife, happy life? Right? ;) I'm not so sure it is a good fitness watch, but I didn't honestly think she needed any more help "tracking" anything in that department anyways. The main benefit is good integration with the phone so she never needs to look at it. She does almost everything from the watch now (seeing notifications, messaging, checking calendar, etc.).
Here's a comparison of the Apple Watch and Fitbit Blaze side by side, just to see the size comparison. You'll see why a woman would want the watch I show above, especially if she has small wrists and wants to wear the watch for most occasions:
(http://d.ecumenicalnews.com/full/15385/apple-watch-vs-fitbit-blaze.jpg?w=590&h=321&l=50&t=40)
(http://i2.wp.com/www.gottabemobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/fitbit-blaze-1.jpg?resize=720%2C480)
(http://www.imore.com/sites/imore.com/files/styles/large_wm_brw/public/field/image/2016/03/fitbitvsapplewatch-4.jpg?itok=V-x1P5IV)
So yeah.... that's how it goes when you are shopping for someone else, especially when that someone else is your wife and it's a birthday present, and she uses an iPhone. I use a BlackBerry so basically my options are pretty much nil at this point. There is nothing that supports BlackBerry :( , even Pebble requires a lot of extra "work-around" apps installed and there is no way to know how long it will be supported. So until I upgrade my phone (which I am not planning on any time soon), I am not going to get any real benefit.
That purchase now took a large chunk out of my electronics gear budget for the year, so I guess there's no new stuff for me until mid-2017. Between that and my kids needs, I feel like Al Bundy when he empties his wallet. :-DD
(http://www.albundy.net/marriedaniac/ate/script/112-i19.jpg)