General > General Technical Chat
Fix the voltage campaign (Australia)
nctnico:
--- Quote from: AlbertL on December 28, 2020, 12:52:21 pm ---For various opinions on the topic, Google "conservation voltage reduction". That's what it's called in the US; it may be known by other names elsewhere in the world.
--- End quote ---
Unless you use incandescent light bulbs the voltage doesn't matter at all nowadays. A switch mode PSU (which is also inside CFL and LED lamps) is a constant energy pump. OTOH higher voltages reduce current and thus losses in the power distribution grid.
tom66:
I can't see how voltage reduction would help with the majority of appliances.
Devices like dishwashers, washing machines, etc. all draw heating current to meet a temperature set point, so lower voltage will simply extend their heating cycles. I^2 losses in feed cabling will reduce, but this may well be counterbalanced by the losses of the machine being greater as the respective cycles operate for longer, losing more energy over that time.
The same applies for the cooling cycles of refrigerators, although perhaps the start-up current would be mildly reduced, I can't see this being considerable.
Anything with an SMPS will generally be more efficient at higher input voltages, although the difference between 230V and 245V is likely to be negligible.
In fact the only thing I could see an improvement on would be devices using fixed AC to accomplish a task with no feedback - fans, incandescent lights (do people really use these any more?) and maybe certain inexpensive LED lamps. Almost everything else will be about the same, or better, on higher input voltages.
SilverSolder:
--- Quote from: tom66 on December 28, 2020, 05:59:01 pm ---I can't see how voltage reduction would help with the majority of appliances.
Devices like dishwashers, washing machines, etc. all draw heating current to meet a temperature set point, so lower voltage will simply extend their heating cycles. I^2 losses in feed cabling will reduce, but this may well be counterbalanced by the losses of the machine being greater as the respective cycles operate for longer, losing more energy over that time.
The same applies for the cooling cycles of refrigerators, although perhaps the start-up current would be mildly reduced, I can't see this being considerable.
Anything with an SMPS will generally be more efficient at higher input voltages, although the difference between 230V and 245V is likely to be negligible.
In fact the only thing I could see an improvement on would be devices using fixed AC to accomplish a task with no feedback - fans, incandescent lights (do people really use these any more?) and maybe certain inexpensive LED lamps. Almost everything else will be about the same, or better, on higher input voltages.
--- End quote ---
Electric heat the same thing - it runs off a thermostat aiming for a setpoint, it will just take a little longer to get there (while using exactly the same amount of energy). The more you think about it, the dumber the voltage reduction idea looks.
My house is still full of incandescent lamps - they are all on dimmers and last, and last, and last... and provide the warm glowing orange light I like when dimmed! They are dimmed 99% of the time and not cost effective to replace.
james_s:
--- Quote from: nctnico on December 28, 2020, 05:21:42 pm ---Unless you use incandescent light bulbs the voltage doesn't matter at all nowadays. A switch mode PSU (which is also inside CFL and LED lamps) is a constant energy pump. OTOH higher voltages reduce current and thus losses in the power distribution grid.
--- End quote ---
One of the effects I noticed when I went to CFL many years ago and later LED lighting is that I no longer noticed momentary dips in the power except if I had the bathroom vent fan on I would hear the speed sag momentarily and now I have several UPS's that kick in. Used to be every time the fridge or air compressor started or a tree branch landed on a power line somewhere the lights would dim or flicker. Modern lighting rides it out without so much as a flicker. I've even had a few incidents during wind storms when the voltage dipped to maybe 80V (from 120 nominal) for a full second or two accompanied by the loud buzz of an arc off in the distance and the LED lights didn't even dim. I only noticed it happening because it was around the holidays and I had some old incandescent Christmas lights around the window and those very noticeably dimmed and flickered.
james_s:
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 28, 2020, 06:13:49 pm ---Electric heat the same thing - it runs off a thermostat aiming for a setpoint, it will just take a little longer to get there (while using exactly the same amount of energy). The more you think about it, the dumber the voltage reduction idea looks.
My house is still full of incandescent lamps - they are all on dimmers and last, and last, and last... and provide the warm glowing orange light I like when dimmed! They are dimmed 99% of the time and not cost effective to replace.
--- End quote ---
Philips makes (or at least made) a line of LED bulbs that turn more orange as they are dimmed. It's not exactly the same effect as you get with incandescent if you really dim them down low but it's pretty close. I have a handful of them that I put in the more vintage fixtures I have that are on dimmers. I still keep incandescent in all the lights at our cabin because it maintains the cool 1970s vibe the place has and since nobody is there most of the time the power bill rarely exceeds the fixed monthly charge just for being connected. I retired them everywhere else years ago though, except places that need them like the oven light and a couple of lava lamps that rely on the heat from the bulb to work.
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