Author Topic: Fluke 85-3  (Read 26963 times)

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Offline PetrosA

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2010, 01:35:09 am »
That's good news! The thing that bothers me more than any other is getting blown off by a company's customer support. I've experienced that kind of thing (very similar to the phone call in your video) from Siemens' electrical division, Kohler generators and Iris, a commercial lighting division of Cooper - all of whom it turns out defer their customer support to local distributors (read: some ying yang in charge of sales at a desk or contractor's counter). In one case it involved a $250 main breaker, in another $1600 worth of transfer switch PCBs and the last involved $10,000 worth of recessed lights I was putting in a kitchen. They all were rude on the phone, deferred me to some local doofuses and what's worse, made me look bad in front of customers. In contrast, when I had an issue with some Phillips LED light strips, they got me on the phone with a Phillip's engineer, in a lab, who step-by-step recreated the scenario I had at the customer's house and helped me troubleshoot the issue (LEDs were tripping a GFI breaker when turned on).

Night and day service.
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Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 03:21:06 am »
OK, guys...

We've (or at least I've) been waiting, and here's the final result of the Fluke 85 Series III saga:

Fluke replaced it with a new 87 Series V.

Guess it wasn't a repairable problem, as I suspected.

I don't think they would have replaced it however, if not for a bit of a public shaming on Youtube... certainly they would not have contacted me back out of the blue.

Funny thing is, I really would have rather the 85 were just fixed. It was a really good meter in it's own right, it complemented the 87-5 I already own quite nicely, and did one or two things better.

Specifically, it acquired voltage readings in the auto-hold mode noticeably faster than the 87-5, and would default to DC current, not AC.

The whole ordeal took about 7 weeks.

Mark Z.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 11:37:54 am by mzacharias »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 11:36:18 am »
Nice! Happy for you. 

I have a FLuke 85-3 too, I'll be checking it for your problem, its likely a defect affecting all 85-3.

A bit of a bother I think for you, but maybe in the end the tradeoff is ok.  If I end up with an 87V too I won't mind  :D

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 12:55:45 pm »
The " modern " multimeter's  are all made with the use of robotics ...
And so, there is very few occasions that an had made repair can resolve an issue.

The positive turn out of your experience with the Fluke service , its the second positive up come that falls on my awareness.

The first was my own experience.    :)  ( But this was one in the Trillion shot )

( I am happy for you too )  ;)    



 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 01:08:39 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline saturation

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Bug in the Fluke Sleep Mode for 85-III series Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2010, 01:11:52 pm »
I've confirmed the OP original complaint.

When asleep, the 85-III still has the same power consumption as is it were awake.

Average measurements, made with a Fluke 87V.

VDC mode ON:  ~800uA.
VDC mode OFF: ~800uA.

Switched to OFF: 8.7uA.

Comparison, 85I, the 1988 model.

VDC mode ON:  ~800uA.
VDC mode OFF: ~183uA.

Switched to OFF: 8.7uA.

I tried switching the sleep mode off and toggled: the rotary switch set to off,  turn ON while holding blue button down for 2 seconds.  COnfirmed no sleep and consumption as listed above on both the 85I and 85III.   Rotary switch to OFF, then back ON, to set the default sleep mode back on, no change in the power consumption for the 85III, and the 85I again drops as listed above.

This is clearly a bug.

Since the 85III series hasn't been in production for some time, I doubt it will get fixed, so its either live with it or exchange the unit.

I will test the 87V later and report.

FWIW, a typical 9V alkaline battery delivers about 500mAH.  At the OFF drain, the 85III battery will be down 50% at 3.5 years so the OFF drain in inconsequential, a 9V battery will likely self discharge more and expire before the battery runs down.  However, since the sleep power drain is 100x more, it will last only .035 years or 13 days if left on sleep mode.

On the 85I the sleep mode will give its battery life ~ 60 days before its down 50% of capacity.



« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 01:29:02 pm by saturation »
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Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2010, 07:20:52 pm »
Thanks for the trouble you obviously went to, and for the concise presentation.

I do not know if Fluke will do an exchange for others who may complain (without a little extra prodding) or perhaps demand the original receipt etc and stick to the letter of the warranty. Thankfully for me, I was the original purchaser with a receipt, a copy of which was sent in with the unit.

For now I have made my little Youtube video private as a "Thank You" to Fluke so as not to continue a sort of public flogging. They did, after all go out of their way to help me when all was said and done. The video can still be seen if you have the url or link from this forum.

BTW Dave has already shown the sleep mode current drain on an 87-5 in an early review; it is about 35uA.

mz
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 07:25:37 pm by mzacharias »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2010, 07:44:42 pm »
mzacharias  i do not see your reference about the "Thank You" video,
what good has to offer in this thread ?
especially if its hidden even in your own channel.

Lots of mystery, with out reason ...  :)


And by the way, if Fluke likes to come in contact with the public,
they must unlock their public forums.

I am thankful to many people about the solution that I got from Fluke,
but the direct way to contact them, was looking blocked.
Until the doors opened from inside to outside.


 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2010, 08:46:39 pm »
mzacharias  i do not see your reference about the "Thank You" video,
what good has to offer in this thread ?
especially if its hidden even in your own channel.

Lots of mystery, with out reason ...  :)


And by the way, if Fluke likes to come in contact with the public,
they must unlock their public forums.

I am thankful to many people about the solution that I got from Fluke,
but the direct way to contact them, was looking blocked.
Until the doors opened from inside to outside.




The video can still be linked from the EEVBlog forum, earlier in this thread, and will be available for a while yet. Not trying to be mysterious.
I'm probably going to re-edit the video with the rest of the story, so to speak. I just don't feel too comfortable going all out against Fluke at this time. My issue is settled. If someone else wants their III series meter replaced, I can certainly file a "friend of the court" brief, as they say...

mz
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2010, 09:02:37 pm »
Thanks for clearing out...  :)

 
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2010, 09:06:56 pm »
You're welcome, mzacharias, thanks for bringing it up, that is clearly a bug that needed fixing back then, and it took this long for someone to find out!  Maybe even publicize who knows.

Given my 85III has the same issue, I'm guessing it affects all 85III and who knows, maybe the whole 80 III series: 83, 85, 87.  Someone forgot to toggle the power down when writing the code.

Thanks for Dave's value that you remember.  I can confirm it, I just finished the test 3 hrs ago.

87V on VDC mode, measured MinMax Ave current using the 85III:

VDC ON: 1110 uA
VDC OFF:   35 uA

Unit OFF: 0.00uA.

At OFF, the 87V is really 'off' in terms of power drain.

FWIW, the power consumption is slightly increased using the VAC mode vs all other modes, but generally not a huge difference.

That said, I don't think I'll make a stink about the 85III issue with Fluke.  I will however, not use sleep mode as a routine, and while the 87V is better DMM overall compared to the others in the series, I do like the 85III more.

The Older 85I has a much clearer and sharper LCD despite its small size and no back lighting, and the back lighting on the 85III, despite only one setting, is clearer and more evenly lit.

Also, subtle changes in the sequence on how the min-max works, the default DC on amps etc., makes me use it more than the 87V routinely, but it does confuse me when I switch meters.


Thanks for the trouble you obviously went to, and for the concise presentation.

I do not know if Fluke will do an exchange for others who may complain (without a little extra prodding) or perhaps demand the original receipt etc and stick to the letter of the warranty. Thankfully for me, I was the original purchaser with a receipt, a copy of which was sent in with the unit.

For now I have made my little Youtube video private as a "Thank You" to Fluke so as not to continue a sort of public flogging. They did, after all go out of their way to help me when all was said and done. The video can still be seen if you have the url or link from this forum.

BTW Dave has already shown the sleep mode current drain on an 87-5 in an early review; it is about 35uA.

mz
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 09:12:01 pm by saturation »
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 Saturation
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 09:10:58 pm »
It not just Fluke who has removed their discussion forum, I know APC has done the same thing.  It was worth experimenting for a while then they stopped support; like Fluke direct contact with tech support via the web or email does the same thing, but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

mzacharias  i do not see your reference about the "Thank You" video,
what good has to offer in this thread ?
especially if its hidden even in your own channel.

Lots of mystery, with out reason ...  :)


And by the way, if Fluke likes to come in contact with the public,
they must unlock their public forums.

I am thankful to many people about the solution that I got from Fluke,
but the direct way to contact them, was looking blocked.
Until the doors opened from inside to outside.



Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2010, 09:27:06 pm »
but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2010, 10:49:00 pm »
Sounds like you're the man to start it K, and given the manufacturers are leery about sponsoring it themselves, why not here, on this forum?  Its already begun so why not lead it and go for it; scattered on eevblog are photos and notes about repairs on old Flukes.  You've done your share too already, but why limit it to Fluke or DMMs, open it to all gear worth salvaging, handheld to bench.


but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 10:50:38 pm by saturation »
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Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2010, 12:30:07 pm »
That said, I don't think I'll make a stink about the 85III issue with Fluke.  I will however, not use sleep mode as a routine, and while the 87V is better DMM overall compared to the others in the series, I do like the 85III more.

The Older 85I has a much clearer and sharper LCD despite its small size and no back lighting, and the back lighting on the 85III, despite only one setting, is clearer and more evenly lit.

Also, subtle changes in the sequence on how the min-max works, the default DC on amps etc., makes me use it more than the 87V routinely, but it does confuse me when I switch meters.




I recently was monitoring 120V AC mains current draw of a plasma TV and as a curiosity had the 85III in series with the 87V. It so happened that when set to auto-range the 87 was constantly going out of range, shifting ranges as brightness levels varied, while the 85 sat there happily in one range. Locking the range on the 87 worked, of course, but it does point up I think how not all 80 series Flukes are the same.
I think it is interesting that the 85 model never sold well, and usually gets less on eBay than an 83III. I don't suppose there was enough difference in features, but the 85 I had cost MUCH less than an 87. It was US $169.00 brand new, though it was probably a closeout price.
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2010, 01:54:24 pm »
but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 

Maybe I should..........

I understand that Fluke needs people to buy new meters instead of fixing old ones, but I think they have gone too far with limiting parts availability, etc.

Junk "parts meters" on E-bay have gone up in price as a result. 
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2010, 02:15:05 pm »
I've had many a measuring event with Flukes, and I still find the 85 series the most 'friendly'.  The 80s series is all good but I wonder why anyone would get the 83 when the 85 was around.

But bang for buck, assuming you don't really need the thermometer in the 87V, the accuracy of the 85III is as good as the 87V for over half less that the cost, when they were new.

Today, you can get an 85 on eBay typically 1/3 for what the 87 will sell so I buy them as deals permit.

That said, I don't think I'll make a stink about the 85III issue with Fluke.  I will however, not use sleep mode as a routine, and while the 87V is better DMM overall compared to the others in the series, I do like the 85III more.

The Older 85I has a much clearer and sharper LCD despite its small size and no back lighting, and the back lighting on the 85III, despite only one setting, is clearer and more evenly lit.

Also, subtle changes in the sequence on how the min-max works, the default DC on amps etc., makes me use it more than the 87V routinely, but it does confuse me when I switch meters.




I recently was monitoring 120V AC mains current draw of a plasma TV and as a curiosity had the 85III in series with the 87V. It so happened that when set to auto-range the 87 was constantly going out of range, shifting ranges as brightness levels varied, while the 85 sat there happily in one range. Locking the range on the 87 worked, of course, but it does point up I think how not all 80 series Flukes are the same.
I think it is interesting that the 85 model never sold well, and usually gets less on eBay than an 83III. I don't suppose there was enough difference in features, but the 85 I had cost MUCH less than an 87. It was US $169.00 brand new, though it was probably a closeout price.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2010, 02:19:09 pm »
The 80 series is very easy to service for most replaceable parts that are worn from age: LCD, casing, fuses etc., but if any of the PCB components blow, MOV or polyfuses I forget, I don't think I would repair the unit and just get a second on eBay.

Most users retire from electronics before the meter dies or is damaged from electrical faults, so there is a generous surplus of equipment for cannibalization or with some cosmetic repair to the LCD or casing, is as good as new.



but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 

Maybe I should..........

I understand that Fluke needs people to buy new meters instead of fixing old ones, but I think they have gone too far with limiting parts availability, etc.

Junk "parts meters" on E-bay have gone up in price as a result. 
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2010, 02:21:12 pm »
Sounds like you're the man to start it K, and given the manufacturers are leery about sponsoring it themselves, why not here, on this forum? Its already begun so why not lead it and go for it; scattered on eevblog are photos and notes about repairs on old Flukes.  You've done your share too already, but why limit it to Fluke or DMMs, open it to all gear worth salvaging, handheld to bench.

Because its not known worldwide, as source about such content.

Every one with an "Technical issue" with a Fluke meter , he will navigate to the source first.
Yes many of us , me included , we have do our best to add such info.
Yes I had even " Grab "  some useful messages from the Fluke forums, about the 87 line,
and added them in this forum . ( looks that this "safekeeping"  looks today truly valuable as did  )  ;D
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=354.0

Even so the contributing level  ( amount of messages ) that the Fluke forum will gather, its an very long shot, for any other forum with out the brand logo of Fluke on it.

EDIT :
And even if there is an such plan , about an DMM database with repair tips in this forum,
some one should start and create the proper forum categories .
Currently  I only see , our valuable additions about repairs of multimeter s, to just sink in the pile of the old threads.  

 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 02:31:05 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2010, 02:53:26 pm »
The 80 series is very easy to service for most replaceable parts that are worn from age: LCD, casing, fuses etc., but if any of the PCB components blow, MOV or polyfuses I forget, I don't think I would repair the unit and just get a second on eBay.

Most users retire from electronics before the meter dies or is damaged from electrical faults, so there is a generous surplus of equipment for cannibalization or with some cosmetic repair to the LCD or casing, is as good as new.

Just some thoughts:

It's difficult to order a replacement probe jack assy from Fluke - if it's still available the cost is 16 dollars plus shipping.  People get 25-32 dollars for these on E-bay.  The same situation exists with LCDs and Fluke is VERY strict about case parts.  Many (87, no series) are not available, and they have limits as well as serial number requirements.  I suspect one must be an authorized dealer or repair facility to get some parts - and you must have a part number, they will do no research at all.  You can't ask for an "LCD for an 87."

I've replaced rotary switches on 87s, and several of the fusible resistor that protects the current source.  The meter is otherwise perfect - it doesn't even need the calibration re-touched.

E-bay meter prices are crazy, but I've noticed them going up.  It pays to compare.  Some clueless sellers are asking 200 dollars for a 8060, when a good 87 can be had for half of that.  I get frustrated when a parts meter goes for 50 or 60 dollars, and I suspect many people think they are like Snap-on tools - buy a broken one and sent it in for a free replacement.  As we've discussed, "that ain't always so!"

Also, it's difficult to get parts meters because many broken meters are so easily fixable!   

Of course, it's still possible to get a steal - I've seen (too late) 189's go for 40 dollars on a "buy it now", and I bought a box of old 8000 series for a song that only had the fusible resistors bad.  I bought that lot for the 87 and 77-III that were in it.  A cannibalized rotary switch part was all the 77 needed, and the 87 has a broken top shield.  (wouldn't apply pressure to the LCD.  I know most here love the 87s, but I don't like that "snap together" plastic type LCD holder.)

Why the 8000 series meters go for so much on e-bay is a mystery - a newer 70 series, 25/27 series or 80 series can be had for the same price and there  are no reasons that the older meters should demand an equal or higher price.  They have less resolution and no auto ranging.  One seller even pointed out that "manual range meters are faster!" Uh, no, the omd 8000 series, as good as they were 25-35 years ago, are SLOW even comared to the almost as old 25, and can't compare to an 80 series.  All autoranging meters can be range-locked, so that argument is silly.

Sorry for the book here, and the off topic ramble.



 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2010, 03:01:00 pm »

Sorry for the book here, and the off topic ramble.

Personally, I am big fun of those  ;)  Thump Up
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2010, 05:29:55 pm »
Excavatoree, is this you?

Its a great guide to many eBay able Fluke series meters and more.


http://reviews.ebay.com/Fluke-Meters-80-Type-Models-and-Series_W0QQugidZ10000000007491382

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2010, 05:50:05 pm »
Excavatoree, is this you?

Its a great guide to many eBay able Fluke series meters and more.


http://reviews.ebay.com/Fluke-Meters-80-Type-Models-and-Series_W0QQugidZ10000000007491382


Yes, that's me.  Thanks for the compliment. 
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 01:19:03 pm »
Hi All

I found this thread while trying to resolve a problem with 2 Fluke 85's.

The 2 meters in question were used for years as bench test meters. With no problems given the economic climate and the cost of quality test equipment I decided to reuse them as I had used them extensively in a previous life as a bench engineer.

The 2 meters are original 85's and looking at the serial numbers are in fact only 7 digits difference so they were probably made in the same time period.

Reading through the post my problems are exactly as stated 8xxuA powered on and approx 8uA constant drain when powered off
I used 3 meters to double check the power drain including using one of the 85's to test the other 85 both meters have exactly the same fault of power drain when powered off.

I know this is an old thread but could someone advise me what todo should i contact Fluke given everything that has been written.

Both meters work fine (from what i can tell) from testing with there standard functions.

Any help would be appreciate many thanks to all in advance.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:48:54 am by Laplace »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 04:23:54 pm »
IIRC, Fluke offers a limited 'lifetime' guarantee on the 80 series.  If you are the original owner and bought it from a Fluke authorized distributor you can either write Fluke directly or ask through the authorized dealer the status.

The bug reported was that in the auto-sleep mode, the 85III do not sleep, the LCD blanks off but the power drain is the same as with it fully awake, so it makes no sense to use the sleep mode.

IIRC the last time this came up, the person complaining was given a new Fluke 87V to replace the 85III with the sleep-mode drain bug.

Since you have several and all exhibit this behavior, its clear it to me its a bug affecting most all these models.  I have one too and it does the same.

PS Let us know on this thread what they say, if you do ask them.   If Fluke does trade you up, please post whom to contact or PM me with your contact, I'd like to then do the same.


Hi All

I found this thread while trying to resolve a problem with 2 Fluke 85's.

The 2 meters in question were used for years as bench test meters. With no problems given the economic climate and the cost of quality test equipment I decided to reuse them as I had used them extensively in a previous life as a bench engineer.

The 2 meters are original 85's and looking at the serial numbers are in fact only 7 digits difference so they were probably made in the same time period.

Reading through the post my problems are exactly as stated 8xx ?A powered on and approx 8 ?A constant drain when powered off
I used 3 meters to double check the power drain including using one of the 85's to test the other 85 both meters have exactly the same fault of power drain when powered off.

I know this is an old thread but could someone advise me what todo should i contact Fluke given everything that has been written.

Both meters work fine (from what i can tell) from testing with there standard functions.

Any help would be appreciate many thanks to all in advance.


Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2013, 02:33:19 am »
IIRC, Fluke offers a limited 'lifetime' guarantee on the 80 series.  If you are the original owner and bought it from a Fluke authorized distributor you can either write Fluke directly or ask through the authorized dealer the status.

The bug reported was that in the auto-sleep mode, the 85III do not sleep, the LCD blanks off but the power drain is the same as with it fully awake, so it makes no sense to use the sleep mode.

IIRC the last time this came up, the person complaining was given a new Fluke 87V to replace the 85III with the sleep-mode drain bug.

Since you have several and all exhibit this behavior, its clear it to me its a bug affecting most all these models.  I have one too and it does the same.

PS Let us know on this thread what they say, if you do ask them.   If Fluke does trade you up, please post whom to contact or PM me with your contact, I'd like to then do the same.


Hi All

I found this thread while trying to resolve a problem with 2 Fluke 85's.

The 2 meters in question were used for years as bench test meters. With no problems given the economic climate and the cost of quality test equipment I decided to reuse them as I had used them extensively in a previous life as a bench engineer.

The 2 meters are original 85's and looking at the serial numbers are in fact only 7 digits difference so they were probably made in the same time period.

Reading through the post my problems are exactly as stated 8xxuA powered on and approx 8uA constant drain when powered off
I used 3 meters to double check the power drain including using one of the 85's to test the other 85 both meters have exactly the same fault of power drain when powered off.

I know this is an old thread but could someone advise me what todo should i contact Fluke given everything that has been written.

Both meters work fine (from what i can tell) from testing with there standard functions.

Any help would be appreciate many thanks to all in advance.



Many thanks for the reply apologies for the time it has taken me to post life has it ways of tying you up.

I have written to Fluke and await there response just to make absolutely clear both these meters are original fluke 85's which I believe did not have power saving/auto off features the 85 III's had both meters where in the OFF position when testing for current drain.

I will post back when I get a response from Fluke.

 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:49:28 am by Laplace »
 


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