Author Topic: Fluke 85-3  (Read 26946 times)

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Offline mzacharias

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Fluke 85-3
« on: September 21, 2010, 11:03:04 am »
Wondering if anyone here has had similar issues with a 80 series III Fluke. Primarily the problem is excessive current drain in "sleep" mode.

My 85-3 is five years old, purchased new from MCM in the U.S. Current drain in normal operation is around 820uA. In so-called "sleep" mode (auto power-off) it only drops to about 780uA. In other words, a battery hog unless you turn it off physically.

Even so, it actually pulls 9uA even with the switch OFF!

Otherwise, operation seems normal. I sent it in for factory service; hopefully they'll get it right - I have no experience with Fluke service.

BTW, talking with a Customer Service Rep implied that contrary to their stated policy, if one of these is returned for service and has not been abused, they will fix it free, not just for the original purchaser from an authorized dealer. I would suggest just don't mention eBay...


Mark Z.
 

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 11:33:16 am »
I recall someone saying it's possibly due to leakage between the switch contacts?

Dave.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 11:35:43 am »
Where is actually the DMM at the moment ?  
Is it at the Fluke " hands " ?
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 11:41:16 am »
I shipped it to Fluke yesterday. Maybe about one week before I really hear anything.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 12:15:09 pm »
Ok , if so , 
you will have to wait ,  test it after it arrives , so to verify how it behaves , and report back.
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 12:15:28 am »
I recall someone saying it's possibly due to leakage between the switch contacts?

Dave.

If it's the switch, it's been bad since day one, as the problem has existed since then. I just didn't recognize it was improper operation at the time.

Mark Z.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 01:29:29 pm »
Fluke will do all tests , and repair if needed ..

I like to believe that when it will be back , it should behave as an  healthy one .

By testing it , you will find out , if the cure worked out , if not could be an specific model issue. 
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2010, 06:52:46 pm »
Interesting, I measure approximately 9 uA in "off mode" of my 87-III that I have here at work.

(Not sure what the specs are for the 25 I was using to measure the current.  I need a microcurrent adaptor.)

The last time I looked at the schematic for an 87 (old "no series" and "series 3") I seem to remember that the power switch doesn't disconnect the battery, it's just a signal. (This brings up Dave's point of why there couldn't have been a separate button.)

The -5 is a different architecture.
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2010, 08:42:35 pm »
Interesting, I measure approximately 9 uA in "off mode" of my 87-III that I have here at work.

(Not sure what the specs are for the 25 I was using to measure the current.  I need a microcurrent adaptor.)

The last time I looked at the schematic for an 87 (old "no series" and "series 3") I seem to remember that the power switch doesn't disconnect the battery, it's just a signal. (This brings up Dave's point of why there couldn't have been a separate button.)

The -5 is a different architecture.


Interesting. OK, I'll accept that the 9uA in "OFF" mode is normal. That's good information, and not a fatal flaw in terms of battery usage.

Hopefully Fluke will fix the excess consumption in sleep mode, and I'll be happy.
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2010, 05:32:38 pm »
Update on the Fluke 85-3:
Fluke received it, put a battery in it, let it run over a weekend, and decided it was OK. Didn't even test the auto power-off function, not until I called them back on it and straightened them out. They put it back in the repair queue. Still waiting to hear from them again.
They said they never even had a current meter on it, and yet said it consumed 1.29mA in normal operation.
Hmmm. Those are 87-5 numbers. Methinks they were just pulling numbers out of their a**. The 85-3 uses about 820uA normal, I suppose because the display is smaller and there's less processing power.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2010, 06:43:01 pm »
Update on the Fluke 85-3:
Fluke received it, put a battery in it, let it run over a weekend, and decided it was OK. Didn't even test the auto power-off function, not until I called them back on it and straightened them out.

I know that you are stressed , but some times , some things its our fault too !!

When an device goes for service , we should write and detailed report with any issues that we have,
so to inform properly the other side , of what or where to look at, or test.

I do that when I RMA from computer parts or even multimeter s . ;)

 
 
 

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2010, 07:32:15 pm »
I know that you are stressed , but some times , some things its our fault too !!

When an device goes for service , we should write and detailed report with any issues that we have,
so to inform properly the other side , of what or where to look at, or test.

I do that when I RMA from computer parts or even multimeter s . ;)
I agree. I've seen this issue from the other side, and it's pretty hopeless when you don't get sufficient information to reproduce the problem (not saying mzacharias did that, since I don't know the facts). You either call the customer, or do some basic tests and return it as 'unable to reproduce problem'. What else are you supposed to do if there are no obvious issues and the customer didn't tell you the specific steps and circumstances?
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2010, 08:07:17 pm »
I know that you are stressed , but some times , some things its our fault too !!

When an device goes for service , we should write and detailed report with any issues that we have,
so to inform properly the other side , of what or where to look at, or test.

I do that when I RMA from computer parts or even multimeter s . ;)
I agree. I've seen this issue from the other side, and it's pretty hopeless when you don't get sufficient information to reproduce the problem (not saying mzacharias did that, since I don't know the facts). You either call the customer, or do some basic tests and return it as 'unable to reproduce problem'. What else are you supposed to do if there are no obvious issues and the customer didn't tell you the specific steps and circumstances?

I believe I was clear enough - the information I gave Fluke was on a par with the original information I posted here. Excessive current consumption in auto power-off mode, over 700uA with display OFF, etc.
They apparently misread my description to read mA not uA. However if you think about it even briefly, this meter couldn't even run if it were pulling 700mA, and even if it did, it would only go a few minutes, and get rather HOT. They just weren't paying attention is my feeling.
I wonder if they put the new hires and kids on the multimeters, and use their best technicians for the higher-end stuff?
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2010, 09:29:28 am »
Regarding the Fluke 85 Series III:

Received back from factory service; no change. Not really that surprised - it seems likely there never was a later microprocessor version which (I believe) would have been necessary to fix the issue of excessive current drain in "sleep mode".

I have posted a video showing the problem and Fluke's response at:



Anyone with a 80 series III (83 or 87 series 3) I would be very interested if you could repeat the test on your meter and see if those models act the same. I suspect they do.

Thanks to all who took the time to reply.

Mark Z.
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2010, 02:52:48 pm »
For my Fluke 87-3 I have here at work:

I measured 890 ua in "on" mode, which strangely drifted to 972 as the meter was left on. (No back-light)

In standby mode, I measured 541uA, which drifted to 579ua in a few minutes. (strange, as I type this, it keeps going up. Ill edit my post if it ever stops - it keeps drifting)

I have no reason to suspect my Fluke 25 (with microampere range) is drifting, but I'll check again at home with some other meters.


 EDIT:

I'm not sure what the peak was, as I was unable to watch it 100 percent of the time.  I believe it got to 650 ua or so, then began to lower.  It oscillated from 520 to 600 microamperes, and has finally settled at about 524 ua. 

« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 04:16:30 pm by Excavatoree »
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2010, 05:27:30 pm »
Thank you very much for checking. It appears that, as I suspected, the III series in general suffers from this "problem".

Seems that it should have been caught and corrected in the design / prototyping phase, but I guess there's nothing to be done at this late date...

Thanks again to any and all for their thoughts and replies on this issue, and of course if anyone else has comments, I'm still very interested in hearing them.

Mark Z.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2010, 07:27:28 pm »
I don't have an 87-3, but I did have a problem with drain in an 85I.  I cleaned the rotary contacts and all's well, its over 20 years old.

The sleep modes and other default modes can be turned off/on by certain key presses while you turn the meter on.  Have you tried toggling it off/on and see if that does anything?  Can't hurt.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2010, 07:40:17 pm »
I don't have an 87-3, but I did have a problem with drain in an 85I.  I cleaned the rotary contacts and all's well, its over 20 years old.

The sleep modes and other default modes can be turned off/on by certain key presses while you turn the meter on.  Have you tried toggling it off/on and see if that does anything?  Can't hurt.

I'm not sure what would be the point...

I can cancel the auto-power-off by pressing the blue button while turning on, but then of course it would not power off at all until turned off manually.
Likewise, if I press any button while in auto power-off mode, normal operation is restored, and current drain goes back to (in my case) 820uA.

So far as cleaning the switch is concerned, the issue has existed since new. I had chosen not to open the main case unless I might need to in order to change a fuse, but that had never happened, and now the unit is just back from Fluke with a fresh cal, so I have even less incentive to open it until I really need to.

Mark Z.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 07:57:28 pm by mzacharias »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 08:09:59 pm »
Yes, understood.  If the 85-3 software has a bug or oversight in it and not all the subsystems are actually turned off when it auto-offs, maybe whatever routine needs to be turned off can be invoked if you try switching the auto off mode off.  After its set once, maybe it will work as designed thereafter.  You can't really know until you try it, and given you can either accept the status quo or try it, its now up to you to find out.



I don't have an 87-3, but I did have a problem with drain in an 85I.  I cleaned the rotary contacts and all's well, its over 20 years old.

The sleep modes and other default modes can be turned off/on by certain key presses while you turn the meter on.  Have you tried toggling it off/on and see if that does anything?  Can't hurt.

I'm not sure what would be the point...

I can cancel the auto-power-off by pressing the blue button while turning on, but then of course it would not power off at all until turned off manually.
Likewise, if I press any button while in auto power-off mode, normal operation is restored, and current drain goes back to (in my case) 820uA.

So far as cleaning the switch is concerned, the issue has existed since new. I had chosen not to open the main case unless I might need to in order to change a fuse, but that had never happened, and now the unit is just back from Fluke with a fresh cal, so I have even less incentive to open it until I really need to.

Mark Z.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 08:42:14 pm »
OK, when I get a chance I will perform the test again, and cancel the sleep mode by pressing a button, then let it sleep again after another 30 minutes. This is your suggestion, yes?
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2010, 10:20:16 pm »
Yes, but also first turn off the sleep mode completely using the start up rotary switch procedure.  Then turn it on again.  Then see if the mA consumption is still high when it goes to sleep automatically.  I don't think there is anything more you can do as there is no system reset on the 87 series.

OK, when I get a chance I will perform the test again, and cancel the sleep mode by pressing a button, then let it sleep again after another 30 minutes. This is your suggestion, yes?
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2010, 10:32:16 pm »
Yes, but also first turn off the sleep mode completely using the start up rotary switch procedure.  Then turn it on again.  Then see if the mA consumption is still high when it goes to sleep automatically.  I don't think there is anything more you can do as there is no system reset on the 87 series.

OK, when I get a chance I will perform the test again, and cancel the sleep mode by pressing a button, then let it sleep again after another 30 minutes. This is your suggestion, yes?

I don't think I can re-enable the auto power-off without just rotating the function switch to the OFF position and then selecting an operating mode, turning it on again manually.

Mark Z.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2010, 12:09:39 am »
Well, if it is an software bug , an firmware update ( If there is one ) it will save it.
If not ...  get a better model .

What matters are  , if you the user,  can be truly productive with it ??  
If not ... sell it on ebay to some one who is an beginner ,  and you, get an more advanced one.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 12:11:55 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2010, 02:47:12 am »
Well, if it is an software bug , an firmware update ( If there is one ) it will save it.
If not ...  get a better model .

What matters are  , if you the user,  can be truly productive with it ??  
If not ... sell it on ebay to some one who is an beginner ,  and you, get an more advanced one.



Well, let's see - I have an 85-3, an 87-5, a 77BN, a 27FM, an 8800A/AF, an 8840A... ;)

Mark Z.
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2010, 05:43:12 pm »
FLASH!!! FLUKE SERVICE HAS CONTACTED ME BACK AND THEY WANT ANOTHER CRACK AT FIXING THIS MULTIMETER!!!

AND...IF THEY CAN'T FIX? IT, THEY WILL GIVE ME A NEW 87 SERIES V !!!

THANKS TO ANDRE BLACK AT FLUKE!

They saw the Youtube video, and they are having meetings about this. Newer, younger techs didn't have their work 100% QA'd, phone support guy shouldn't have blown me off, etc.

Restores ones' faith, eh?
 

Offline PetrosA

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2010, 01:35:09 am »
That's good news! The thing that bothers me more than any other is getting blown off by a company's customer support. I've experienced that kind of thing (very similar to the phone call in your video) from Siemens' electrical division, Kohler generators and Iris, a commercial lighting division of Cooper - all of whom it turns out defer their customer support to local distributors (read: some ying yang in charge of sales at a desk or contractor's counter). In one case it involved a $250 main breaker, in another $1600 worth of transfer switch PCBs and the last involved $10,000 worth of recessed lights I was putting in a kitchen. They all were rude on the phone, deferred me to some local doofuses and what's worse, made me look bad in front of customers. In contrast, when I had an issue with some Phillips LED light strips, they got me on the phone with a Phillip's engineer, in a lab, who step-by-step recreated the scenario I had at the customer's house and helped me troubleshoot the issue (LEDs were tripping a GFI breaker when turned on).

Night and day service.
I miss my home I miss my porch, porch
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 03:21:06 am »
OK, guys...

We've (or at least I've) been waiting, and here's the final result of the Fluke 85 Series III saga:

Fluke replaced it with a new 87 Series V.

Guess it wasn't a repairable problem, as I suspected.

I don't think they would have replaced it however, if not for a bit of a public shaming on Youtube... certainly they would not have contacted me back out of the blue.

Funny thing is, I really would have rather the 85 were just fixed. It was a really good meter in it's own right, it complemented the 87-5 I already own quite nicely, and did one or two things better.

Specifically, it acquired voltage readings in the auto-hold mode noticeably faster than the 87-5, and would default to DC current, not AC.

The whole ordeal took about 7 weeks.

Mark Z.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 11:37:54 am by mzacharias »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 11:36:18 am »
Nice! Happy for you. 

I have a FLuke 85-3 too, I'll be checking it for your problem, its likely a defect affecting all 85-3.

A bit of a bother I think for you, but maybe in the end the tradeoff is ok.  If I end up with an 87V too I won't mind  :D

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 12:55:45 pm »
The " modern " multimeter's  are all made with the use of robotics ...
And so, there is very few occasions that an had made repair can resolve an issue.

The positive turn out of your experience with the Fluke service , its the second positive up come that falls on my awareness.

The first was my own experience.    :)  ( But this was one in the Trillion shot )

( I am happy for you too )  ;)    



 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 01:08:39 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline saturation

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Bug in the Fluke Sleep Mode for 85-III series Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2010, 01:11:52 pm »
I've confirmed the OP original complaint.

When asleep, the 85-III still has the same power consumption as is it were awake.

Average measurements, made with a Fluke 87V.

VDC mode ON:  ~800uA.
VDC mode OFF: ~800uA.

Switched to OFF: 8.7uA.

Comparison, 85I, the 1988 model.

VDC mode ON:  ~800uA.
VDC mode OFF: ~183uA.

Switched to OFF: 8.7uA.

I tried switching the sleep mode off and toggled: the rotary switch set to off,  turn ON while holding blue button down for 2 seconds.  COnfirmed no sleep and consumption as listed above on both the 85I and 85III.   Rotary switch to OFF, then back ON, to set the default sleep mode back on, no change in the power consumption for the 85III, and the 85I again drops as listed above.

This is clearly a bug.

Since the 85III series hasn't been in production for some time, I doubt it will get fixed, so its either live with it or exchange the unit.

I will test the 87V later and report.

FWIW, a typical 9V alkaline battery delivers about 500mAH.  At the OFF drain, the 85III battery will be down 50% at 3.5 years so the OFF drain in inconsequential, a 9V battery will likely self discharge more and expire before the battery runs down.  However, since the sleep power drain is 100x more, it will last only .035 years or 13 days if left on sleep mode.

On the 85I the sleep mode will give its battery life ~ 60 days before its down 50% of capacity.



« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 01:29:02 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2010, 07:20:52 pm »
Thanks for the trouble you obviously went to, and for the concise presentation.

I do not know if Fluke will do an exchange for others who may complain (without a little extra prodding) or perhaps demand the original receipt etc and stick to the letter of the warranty. Thankfully for me, I was the original purchaser with a receipt, a copy of which was sent in with the unit.

For now I have made my little Youtube video private as a "Thank You" to Fluke so as not to continue a sort of public flogging. They did, after all go out of their way to help me when all was said and done. The video can still be seen if you have the url or link from this forum.

BTW Dave has already shown the sleep mode current drain on an 87-5 in an early review; it is about 35uA.

mz
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 07:25:37 pm by mzacharias »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2010, 07:44:42 pm »
mzacharias  i do not see your reference about the "Thank You" video,
what good has to offer in this thread ?
especially if its hidden even in your own channel.

Lots of mystery, with out reason ...  :)


And by the way, if Fluke likes to come in contact with the public,
they must unlock their public forums.

I am thankful to many people about the solution that I got from Fluke,
but the direct way to contact them, was looking blocked.
Until the doors opened from inside to outside.


 

Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2010, 08:46:39 pm »
mzacharias  i do not see your reference about the "Thank You" video,
what good has to offer in this thread ?
especially if its hidden even in your own channel.

Lots of mystery, with out reason ...  :)


And by the way, if Fluke likes to come in contact with the public,
they must unlock their public forums.

I am thankful to many people about the solution that I got from Fluke,
but the direct way to contact them, was looking blocked.
Until the doors opened from inside to outside.




The video can still be linked from the EEVBlog forum, earlier in this thread, and will be available for a while yet. Not trying to be mysterious.
I'm probably going to re-edit the video with the rest of the story, so to speak. I just don't feel too comfortable going all out against Fluke at this time. My issue is settled. If someone else wants their III series meter replaced, I can certainly file a "friend of the court" brief, as they say...

mz
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2010, 09:02:37 pm »
Thanks for clearing out...  :)

 
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2010, 09:06:56 pm »
You're welcome, mzacharias, thanks for bringing it up, that is clearly a bug that needed fixing back then, and it took this long for someone to find out!  Maybe even publicize who knows.

Given my 85III has the same issue, I'm guessing it affects all 85III and who knows, maybe the whole 80 III series: 83, 85, 87.  Someone forgot to toggle the power down when writing the code.

Thanks for Dave's value that you remember.  I can confirm it, I just finished the test 3 hrs ago.

87V on VDC mode, measured MinMax Ave current using the 85III:

VDC ON: 1110 uA
VDC OFF:   35 uA

Unit OFF: 0.00uA.

At OFF, the 87V is really 'off' in terms of power drain.

FWIW, the power consumption is slightly increased using the VAC mode vs all other modes, but generally not a huge difference.

That said, I don't think I'll make a stink about the 85III issue with Fluke.  I will however, not use sleep mode as a routine, and while the 87V is better DMM overall compared to the others in the series, I do like the 85III more.

The Older 85I has a much clearer and sharper LCD despite its small size and no back lighting, and the back lighting on the 85III, despite only one setting, is clearer and more evenly lit.

Also, subtle changes in the sequence on how the min-max works, the default DC on amps etc., makes me use it more than the 87V routinely, but it does confuse me when I switch meters.


Thanks for the trouble you obviously went to, and for the concise presentation.

I do not know if Fluke will do an exchange for others who may complain (without a little extra prodding) or perhaps demand the original receipt etc and stick to the letter of the warranty. Thankfully for me, I was the original purchaser with a receipt, a copy of which was sent in with the unit.

For now I have made my little Youtube video private as a "Thank You" to Fluke so as not to continue a sort of public flogging. They did, after all go out of their way to help me when all was said and done. The video can still be seen if you have the url or link from this forum.

BTW Dave has already shown the sleep mode current drain on an 87-5 in an early review; it is about 35uA.

mz
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 09:12:01 pm by saturation »
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Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2010, 09:10:58 pm »
It not just Fluke who has removed their discussion forum, I know APC has done the same thing.  It was worth experimenting for a while then they stopped support; like Fluke direct contact with tech support via the web or email does the same thing, but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

mzacharias  i do not see your reference about the "Thank You" video,
what good has to offer in this thread ?
especially if its hidden even in your own channel.

Lots of mystery, with out reason ...  :)


And by the way, if Fluke likes to come in contact with the public,
they must unlock their public forums.

I am thankful to many people about the solution that I got from Fluke,
but the direct way to contact them, was looking blocked.
Until the doors opened from inside to outside.



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Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2010, 09:27:06 pm »
but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2010, 10:49:00 pm »
Sounds like you're the man to start it K, and given the manufacturers are leery about sponsoring it themselves, why not here, on this forum?  Its already begun so why not lead it and go for it; scattered on eevblog are photos and notes about repairs on old Flukes.  You've done your share too already, but why limit it to Fluke or DMMs, open it to all gear worth salvaging, handheld to bench.


but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2010, 10:50:38 pm by saturation »
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Offline mzacharias

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2010, 12:30:07 pm »
That said, I don't think I'll make a stink about the 85III issue with Fluke.  I will however, not use sleep mode as a routine, and while the 87V is better DMM overall compared to the others in the series, I do like the 85III more.

The Older 85I has a much clearer and sharper LCD despite its small size and no back lighting, and the back lighting on the 85III, despite only one setting, is clearer and more evenly lit.

Also, subtle changes in the sequence on how the min-max works, the default DC on amps etc., makes me use it more than the 87V routinely, but it does confuse me when I switch meters.




I recently was monitoring 120V AC mains current draw of a plasma TV and as a curiosity had the 85III in series with the 87V. It so happened that when set to auto-range the 87 was constantly going out of range, shifting ranges as brightness levels varied, while the 85 sat there happily in one range. Locking the range on the 87 worked, of course, but it does point up I think how not all 80 series Flukes are the same.
I think it is interesting that the 85 model never sold well, and usually gets less on eBay than an 83III. I don't suppose there was enough difference in features, but the 85 I had cost MUCH less than an 87. It was US $169.00 brand new, though it was probably a closeout price.
 

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2010, 01:54:24 pm »
but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 

Maybe I should..........

I understand that Fluke needs people to buy new meters instead of fixing old ones, but I think they have gone too far with limiting parts availability, etc.

Junk "parts meters" on E-bay have gone up in price as a result. 
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2010, 02:15:05 pm »
I've had many a measuring event with Flukes, and I still find the 85 series the most 'friendly'.  The 80s series is all good but I wonder why anyone would get the 83 when the 85 was around.

But bang for buck, assuming you don't really need the thermometer in the 87V, the accuracy of the 85III is as good as the 87V for over half less that the cost, when they were new.

Today, you can get an 85 on eBay typically 1/3 for what the 87 will sell so I buy them as deals permit.

That said, I don't think I'll make a stink about the 85III issue with Fluke.  I will however, not use sleep mode as a routine, and while the 87V is better DMM overall compared to the others in the series, I do like the 85III more.

The Older 85I has a much clearer and sharper LCD despite its small size and no back lighting, and the back lighting on the 85III, despite only one setting, is clearer and more evenly lit.

Also, subtle changes in the sequence on how the min-max works, the default DC on amps etc., makes me use it more than the 87V routinely, but it does confuse me when I switch meters.




I recently was monitoring 120V AC mains current draw of a plasma TV and as a curiosity had the 85III in series with the 87V. It so happened that when set to auto-range the 87 was constantly going out of range, shifting ranges as brightness levels varied, while the 85 sat there happily in one range. Locking the range on the 87 worked, of course, but it does point up I think how not all 80 series Flukes are the same.
I think it is interesting that the 85 model never sold well, and usually gets less on eBay than an 83III. I don't suppose there was enough difference in features, but the 85 I had cost MUCH less than an 87. It was US $169.00 brand new, though it was probably a closeout price.
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Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2010, 02:19:09 pm »
The 80 series is very easy to service for most replaceable parts that are worn from age: LCD, casing, fuses etc., but if any of the PCB components blow, MOV or polyfuses I forget, I don't think I would repair the unit and just get a second on eBay.

Most users retire from electronics before the meter dies or is damaged from electrical faults, so there is a generous surplus of equipment for cannibalization or with some cosmetic repair to the LCD or casing, is as good as new.



but they get rid of the banter and potential libelous statements from other users open for all to see.

And with such an move, they killed and all the tips about repairs, added by the users, about the old Fluke DMM models.

I bet that if some one else, start a forum , about multimeter repair tips, he will get lots of credit.
 

Maybe I should..........

I understand that Fluke needs people to buy new meters instead of fixing old ones, but I think they have gone too far with limiting parts availability, etc.

Junk "parts meters" on E-bay have gone up in price as a result. 
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2010, 02:21:12 pm »
Sounds like you're the man to start it K, and given the manufacturers are leery about sponsoring it themselves, why not here, on this forum? Its already begun so why not lead it and go for it; scattered on eevblog are photos and notes about repairs on old Flukes.  You've done your share too already, but why limit it to Fluke or DMMs, open it to all gear worth salvaging, handheld to bench.

Because its not known worldwide, as source about such content.

Every one with an "Technical issue" with a Fluke meter , he will navigate to the source first.
Yes many of us , me included , we have do our best to add such info.
Yes I had even " Grab "  some useful messages from the Fluke forums, about the 87 line,
and added them in this forum . ( looks that this "safekeeping"  looks today truly valuable as did  )  ;D
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=354.0

Even so the contributing level  ( amount of messages ) that the Fluke forum will gather, its an very long shot, for any other forum with out the brand logo of Fluke on it.

EDIT :
And even if there is an such plan , about an DMM database with repair tips in this forum,
some one should start and create the proper forum categories .
Currently  I only see , our valuable additions about repairs of multimeter s, to just sink in the pile of the old threads.  

 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 02:31:05 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2010, 02:53:26 pm »
The 80 series is very easy to service for most replaceable parts that are worn from age: LCD, casing, fuses etc., but if any of the PCB components blow, MOV or polyfuses I forget, I don't think I would repair the unit and just get a second on eBay.

Most users retire from electronics before the meter dies or is damaged from electrical faults, so there is a generous surplus of equipment for cannibalization or with some cosmetic repair to the LCD or casing, is as good as new.

Just some thoughts:

It's difficult to order a replacement probe jack assy from Fluke - if it's still available the cost is 16 dollars plus shipping.  People get 25-32 dollars for these on E-bay.  The same situation exists with LCDs and Fluke is VERY strict about case parts.  Many (87, no series) are not available, and they have limits as well as serial number requirements.  I suspect one must be an authorized dealer or repair facility to get some parts - and you must have a part number, they will do no research at all.  You can't ask for an "LCD for an 87."

I've replaced rotary switches on 87s, and several of the fusible resistor that protects the current source.  The meter is otherwise perfect - it doesn't even need the calibration re-touched.

E-bay meter prices are crazy, but I've noticed them going up.  It pays to compare.  Some clueless sellers are asking 200 dollars for a 8060, when a good 87 can be had for half of that.  I get frustrated when a parts meter goes for 50 or 60 dollars, and I suspect many people think they are like Snap-on tools - buy a broken one and sent it in for a free replacement.  As we've discussed, "that ain't always so!"

Also, it's difficult to get parts meters because many broken meters are so easily fixable!   

Of course, it's still possible to get a steal - I've seen (too late) 189's go for 40 dollars on a "buy it now", and I bought a box of old 8000 series for a song that only had the fusible resistors bad.  I bought that lot for the 87 and 77-III that were in it.  A cannibalized rotary switch part was all the 77 needed, and the 87 has a broken top shield.  (wouldn't apply pressure to the LCD.  I know most here love the 87s, but I don't like that "snap together" plastic type LCD holder.)

Why the 8000 series meters go for so much on e-bay is a mystery - a newer 70 series, 25/27 series or 80 series can be had for the same price and there  are no reasons that the older meters should demand an equal or higher price.  They have less resolution and no auto ranging.  One seller even pointed out that "manual range meters are faster!" Uh, no, the omd 8000 series, as good as they were 25-35 years ago, are SLOW even comared to the almost as old 25, and can't compare to an 80 series.  All autoranging meters can be range-locked, so that argument is silly.

Sorry for the book here, and the off topic ramble.



 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2010, 03:01:00 pm »

Sorry for the book here, and the off topic ramble.

Personally, I am big fun of those  ;)  Thump Up
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #45 on: November 17, 2010, 05:29:55 pm »
Excavatoree, is this you?

Its a great guide to many eBay able Fluke series meters and more.


http://reviews.ebay.com/Fluke-Meters-80-Type-Models-and-Series_W0QQugidZ10000000007491382

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Offline Excavatoree

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2010, 05:50:05 pm »
Excavatoree, is this you?

Its a great guide to many eBay able Fluke series meters and more.


http://reviews.ebay.com/Fluke-Meters-80-Type-Models-and-Series_W0QQugidZ10000000007491382


Yes, that's me.  Thanks for the compliment. 
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2012, 01:19:03 pm »
Hi All

I found this thread while trying to resolve a problem with 2 Fluke 85's.

The 2 meters in question were used for years as bench test meters. With no problems given the economic climate and the cost of quality test equipment I decided to reuse them as I had used them extensively in a previous life as a bench engineer.

The 2 meters are original 85's and looking at the serial numbers are in fact only 7 digits difference so they were probably made in the same time period.

Reading through the post my problems are exactly as stated 8xxuA powered on and approx 8uA constant drain when powered off
I used 3 meters to double check the power drain including using one of the 85's to test the other 85 both meters have exactly the same fault of power drain when powered off.

I know this is an old thread but could someone advise me what todo should i contact Fluke given everything that has been written.

Both meters work fine (from what i can tell) from testing with there standard functions.

Any help would be appreciate many thanks to all in advance.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:48:54 am by Laplace »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2012, 04:23:54 pm »
IIRC, Fluke offers a limited 'lifetime' guarantee on the 80 series.  If you are the original owner and bought it from a Fluke authorized distributor you can either write Fluke directly or ask through the authorized dealer the status.

The bug reported was that in the auto-sleep mode, the 85III do not sleep, the LCD blanks off but the power drain is the same as with it fully awake, so it makes no sense to use the sleep mode.

IIRC the last time this came up, the person complaining was given a new Fluke 87V to replace the 85III with the sleep-mode drain bug.

Since you have several and all exhibit this behavior, its clear it to me its a bug affecting most all these models.  I have one too and it does the same.

PS Let us know on this thread what they say, if you do ask them.   If Fluke does trade you up, please post whom to contact or PM me with your contact, I'd like to then do the same.


Hi All

I found this thread while trying to resolve a problem with 2 Fluke 85's.

The 2 meters in question were used for years as bench test meters. With no problems given the economic climate and the cost of quality test equipment I decided to reuse them as I had used them extensively in a previous life as a bench engineer.

The 2 meters are original 85's and looking at the serial numbers are in fact only 7 digits difference so they were probably made in the same time period.

Reading through the post my problems are exactly as stated 8xx ?A powered on and approx 8 ?A constant drain when powered off
I used 3 meters to double check the power drain including using one of the 85's to test the other 85 both meters have exactly the same fault of power drain when powered off.

I know this is an old thread but could someone advise me what todo should i contact Fluke given everything that has been written.

Both meters work fine (from what i can tell) from testing with there standard functions.

Any help would be appreciate many thanks to all in advance.


Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2013, 02:33:19 am »
IIRC, Fluke offers a limited 'lifetime' guarantee on the 80 series.  If you are the original owner and bought it from a Fluke authorized distributor you can either write Fluke directly or ask through the authorized dealer the status.

The bug reported was that in the auto-sleep mode, the 85III do not sleep, the LCD blanks off but the power drain is the same as with it fully awake, so it makes no sense to use the sleep mode.

IIRC the last time this came up, the person complaining was given a new Fluke 87V to replace the 85III with the sleep-mode drain bug.

Since you have several and all exhibit this behavior, its clear it to me its a bug affecting most all these models.  I have one too and it does the same.

PS Let us know on this thread what they say, if you do ask them.   If Fluke does trade you up, please post whom to contact or PM me with your contact, I'd like to then do the same.


Hi All

I found this thread while trying to resolve a problem with 2 Fluke 85's.

The 2 meters in question were used for years as bench test meters. With no problems given the economic climate and the cost of quality test equipment I decided to reuse them as I had used them extensively in a previous life as a bench engineer.

The 2 meters are original 85's and looking at the serial numbers are in fact only 7 digits difference so they were probably made in the same time period.

Reading through the post my problems are exactly as stated 8xxuA powered on and approx 8uA constant drain when powered off
I used 3 meters to double check the power drain including using one of the 85's to test the other 85 both meters have exactly the same fault of power drain when powered off.

I know this is an old thread but could someone advise me what todo should i contact Fluke given everything that has been written.

Both meters work fine (from what i can tell) from testing with there standard functions.

Any help would be appreciate many thanks to all in advance.



Many thanks for the reply apologies for the time it has taken me to post life has it ways of tying you up.

I have written to Fluke and await there response just to make absolutely clear both these meters are original fluke 85's which I believe did not have power saving/auto off features the 85 III's had both meters where in the OFF position when testing for current drain.

I will post back when I get a response from Fluke.

 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 02:49:28 am by Laplace »
 

Offline Spawn

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2013, 04:19:37 am »
Hi there Laplace, if I am reading this part correct:

...my problems are exactly as stated 8xxuA powered on and approx 8uA constant drain when powered off

You are telling us that your Fluke 85 (the original one) drains 8uA when it is turned off? If so, I don’t want to rain in your parade but that’s normal consumption of the meter when it is turned off, 8uA is not that much to be honest, I would not worry about that.

I got 4 original 85’s here and just cracked one open for you and measure the current in OFF and it was 9uA so it is even more than yours ;)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 04:31:53 am by Spawn »
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2013, 05:48:36 am »
Hi there Laplace, if I am reading this part correct:

...my problems are exactly as stated 8xxuA powered on and approx 8uA constant drain when powered off

You are telling us that your Fluke 85 (the original one) drains 8uA when it is turned off? If so, I don’t want to rain in your parade but that’s normal consumption of the meter when it is turned off, 8uA is not that much to be honest, I would not worry about that.

I got 4 original 85’s here and just cracked one open for you and measure the current in OFF and it was 9uA so it is even more than yours ;)

Cheers Spawn,

Many thanks for the reply, testing and the confirmation that you also see the same numbers or there abouts give or take a uA!

Just a bit of background I used both these 85's as a bench engineer in the early to mid 90's when the company decided to relocate they sold off alot of the workshop equipment to the engineers. I mainly used another DMM from memory I can't quite remember the model. So these 2 meters weren't used daily but for sure weekly or bi-monthly. I would say I replaced the batteries perhaps once every 3-6 months as an estimate.

After I dug these out and not wanting to spend money I don't have on a nice new Fluke, I decided to use them replacing the batteries with fresh ones.

The problem I have is this, if I leave the battery connected and the meters OFF and not use them for lets say for a few days, the batteries are completely drained when I come to use them this is a real pain as you know the original 85 has no battery cover (as I expect fluke did not expect the battery to replaced frequently) unlike the later 85's. And has 3 screws to remove the back cover not to mention if they sit in the rubber holsters you have to remove that then the screws then wrestle the back cover off and replace the battery.

Given the 8-9uA drain it would take some time to drain a 200mAh battery.

I could just retro fit a switch to solve the problem but the problem has only occurred in the past 5 years or so?

How long do your batteries last? And do you see this kind of problem?

Many thanks once again for the reply and testing much appreciated.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 06:07:26 am by Laplace »
 

Offline Spawn

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2013, 06:32:16 am »
Given the 8-9uA drain how long given the maths will it take to drain a 200mAh 9v battery?

How long do your batteries last? And do you see this kind of problem?

No problem at all Laplace :)

I think I replace my batteries around 2 years or close to that.

If we have to calculate for a 200mAh battery, there are several calculation methods like taking 75% average of it because battery being dead after discharge to certain point, some use even more or less.

9uA = 0.009mA so if the battery capacity is 200mAh/0.009mA = 22222 hours * 75% = 16666 / 24h = 694 days = 1 year and 329 days.

Well when I wrote two years above I didn’t do the calculation yet and it seems pretty close :D

I am sure someone else will calculate it differently but this is how I do.
 

Offline retiredcaps

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2013, 06:43:05 am »
And do you see this kind of problem?
I haven't seen this personally myself, but someone over at badcaps.net has the same problem with the battery draining in an original 87.  See

http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18947

He hasn't reported back unfortunately to see if any of our suggestions, particularly cleaning the range switch, has worked or not.

ModemHead's blog on fixing a Fluke 83 might also give you some insight?

http://mrmodemhead.com/blog/fluke-83-dmm-repair/
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2013, 06:49:29 am »
Given the 8-9uA drain how long given the maths will it take to drain a 200mAh 9v battery?

How long do your batteries last? And do you see this kind of problem?

No problem at all Laplace :)

I think I replace my batteries around 2 years or close to that.

If we have to calculate for a 200mAh battery, there are several calculation methods like taking 75% average of it because battery being dead after discharge to certain point, some use even more or less.

9uA = 0.009mA so if the battery capacity is 200mAh/0.009mA = 22222 hours * 75% = 16666 / 24h = 694 days = 1 year and 329 days.

Well when I wrote two years above I didn’t do the calculation yet and it seems pretty close :D

I am sure someone else will calculate it differently but this is how I do.

I would say you were pretty spot on there with your guesstimation and calculation  ;)

Odd fault I seem to have hit a wall as to why they both have the same fault, see what Fluke says but I predict I will be modifying them so they aren't consigned to the dustbin.

Many thanks  :)   
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 07:12:19 am by Laplace »
 

Offline Spawn

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2013, 07:01:54 am »
I am also curious what they have to say, I don’t have rubber holsters unfortunately for my 85’s since I got them second hand, a battery door would be nice like on III models but to be honest I like them a lot even they are almost 25 years old :)

But about the calculation I forgot to add up the usage  :-[ , most 9v alkaline batteries are around 600mAh so it’s hard to calculate if you don’t know how many hours you use, but I am pretty sure I replace them around 2 years.

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2013, 10:30:14 am »
If we have to calculate for a 200mAh battery, there are several calculation methods like taking 75% average of it because battery being dead after discharge to certain point, some use even more or less.

9uA = 0.009mA so if the battery capacity is 200mAh/0.009mA = 22222 hours * 75% = 16666 / 24h = 694 days = 1 year and 329 days.

An Alkaline 9V will be well over 600mAh. But all of that may not be usable depending upon the low batt voltage.

Dave.
 

Offline Spawn

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #57 on: January 15, 2013, 01:53:07 pm »
Indeed, I was calculating with 200mAh because Laplace was asking for that  ^-^

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2013, 03:47:36 pm »
ModemHead's blog on fixing a Fluke 83 might also give you some insight?
To summarize that long story, there is a CD4069 hex inverter package powered directly from the battery terminals. And more importantly, a 1Meg pull-up resistor (R54) straight across the battery when the switch is in the off position.
 

Offline Laplace

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2013, 03:30:13 am »
Many thanks to everyone that has replied to my post all information and comments have been most helpful.

Spawn, I used 200 mAh as example because I got fed up and a little lazy replacing the battery every time I used the meter(s) buying Duracells even in bulk can get pretty expensive so as a work around I used some Uniross Ni-MH 9v batteries and cycled them when I forgot to take them out and were drained. Problem solved <smiles> and far greener and healthier for my bank balance.

The Uniross are marked as 200 mAh hence why I mentioned that.

Apologies for the idiocy regarding the question in powered off state current drain given uA=10-6 and mA=10-3
Obviously 1000uA = 1mA so as you replied the current drain in the powered off position is negligible.

My excuse it was very late 5am and my brain had long since gone to count electric sheep.  I have also found which my memory had completely omitted the 85 does have auto power off approx 30 mins or so.

I haven't tested yet to see if the drain increases over time after auto shut off but given what has been said about the series 80's and the known auto shut off current drain fault. I suspect they both have.

I have had a look at one of the boards and it appears it is date stamped 29 Mar 89 the board revision is H. I have managed to get a 83 85 87 service manual from around 89 component placement and silk screen idents all seemed to match up.

I expect Fluke will laugh at my complete lack of sense in my email and given as Spawn has pointed out these meters are approaching almost 25 years I expect they won't get fixed or replaced.

I will revisit the problem when I have time (seems a little rare these days) it may be a good little project given I have 2 and as previously stated I like the meters selling them off would be unfair to a buyer and I would only use the money to buy a 87 series or something similar given test equipment is a little like your beloved 1st guitar you get used to all the nuances.

Many thanks to everyone ModemHead, EEVblog, Spawn, retiredcaps & saturation (apologies if I have missed anyone) who have posted info, links and suggestions they have been very helpful and also the OP who started the thread way back.

Thanks to Excavatoree for his excellent fluke ebay guide(s) although some of the picture links now appear as place holders.

I will post back when I can. 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:37:04 am by Laplace »
 

Offline Spawn

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Re: Fluke 85-3
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2013, 07:19:21 am »
No problem at all Laplace, I am glad to see a fellow 85 user trying to keep them alive, even for it's age it is still a great multimeter :)


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