Author Topic: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'  (Read 7578 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline icon

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 246
Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« on: May 13, 2012, 08:03:25 pm »
Hi

Can anyone shed any light on this - which Fluke DMMs (if any) come as standard with an Instrument Test Certificate, with supporting verification test data? Would a 287, for example?

Cheers
John
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 08:23:24 pm »
I think asking Fluke support has the highest probability of getting a complete and correct answer.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29883
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 10:21:58 pm »
I have yet to see a Fluke DMM come with a proper independent certifiable calibration certificate.
It's usually just a sheet stating that it's met company internal calibration checks etc.
Companies I've worked (who take cal seriously) for have never taken this bit of paper as credible, and back out the door it goes for cal as soon as we get it.

Dave.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12027
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 10:33:05 pm »
I have yet to see a Fluke DMM come with a proper independent certifiable calibration certificate.
It's usually just a sheet stating that it's met company internal calibration checks etc.
Companies I've worked (who take cal seriously) for have never taken this bit of paper as credible, and back out the door it goes for cal as soon as we get it.

Dave.
Many suppliers give the option of paying extra for a traceable cal cert, but I'd think certs from reputable mfrs like Fluke, Agilent etc. would be reasonably trustworthy.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2012, 12:14:27 am »
My 8846A came with a full certification of all ranges and functions with actual test values.  It was included in the standard price.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29883
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2012, 02:34:01 am »
but I'd think certs from reputable mfrs like Fluke, Agilent etc. would be reasonably trustworthy.

Trustworthy, yes. Acceptable to anal QA/cal departments, not often!
IIRC The problem with Fluke is that it was never a proper "calibration certificate" with the units serial number etc, it was something like a generic "statement of calibration" card inserted in each box. IME that has never been acceptable as any form of traceable calibration.
Cal certificates don't have to include the actual test results, but it's gotta list the unit serial number, cal date, and equipment used etc as a minimum. IIRC Fluke have never done this on their meters.

Dave.
 

Online vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4946
  • Country: au
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2012, 03:40:06 am »
If I remember correctly,Philips Australia used to do a "one stop shop" thing,where you sent them your Fluke,& for a fixed price,they would fix it if it had problems,& calibrate it.
I'm pretty sure you got a proper calibration certificate,but it's years ago.
I think the new units just had a "generic" certificate as Dave mentions,so you were more sure of your old ones,than the "latest & greatest!"
 

Offline eevblogfan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 569
  • Country: 00
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 06:35:42 am »
I got mine 287 with :





and my hp came with standart's names's list :

note: the HP was within spec when he arrived to the lab , so as old as he is , damm , he's great value for the money :) 

 

Offline icon

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 246
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2012, 08:18:23 am »
I got mine 287 with :

Ah! Interesting. That's what I got.


We could play calibration data Top Trumps.

In the meantime, I found this on Fluke's website, which seems to suggest that it's *not* standard:

http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/3315030_7103_eng_a_w.pdf - the 287 should just come with a 'Statement of Calibration Practices'. I don't know what's going on there.

Secondary question, since you have one - what firmware version does yours show? Mine says 1.12, but Fluke's website only has (and in fact offered me when I registered) version 1.10. Not sure what that's about either!

Cheers
John
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 08:21:45 am by icon »
 

Offline eevblogfan

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 569
  • Country: 00
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 08:35:44 am »
mine either . 1.12 

BTW:

I noticed that when battery voltage goes lower then 7.5V . the accuarcy remain whithin spec , but when 9V . the meter is spot on VS my HP , so should I consider that as a consern ?

I also noticed , there are some ranges in voltage I need to rel out and then it's 1 by 1 VS my HP , and there are some ranges who don't need rel at all and they're 1 by 1 VS my HP (wierd 0_0 )
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2012, 11:49:51 am »
8846A certification that comes with the meter at no additional cost if you ask for it and your distributor offers it, see next post.

This looks like a real certification to me.   I have obviously blanked out the serial number and cert number.  looking at the actual deviations compared to the one year specs is pretty amazing.  It looks like my meter must have been petty close to the center of the bell curve.

The poor print quality is from shrinking the scanner pics by 50% to fit without having to pan









« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 09:49:15 pm by robrenz »
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 05:48:24 pm »
So I talked to Fluke calibration today about this and here is what I found.

I got a "Accredited report of calibration" certificate on my 8846A for FREE for 2 reasons:
1.   I asked for it (at Tequipment.com) and specifically asked how old would the cert be on a meter bought from them. In my
      case the meter was 2 weeks delivery direct from the factory with a fresh cert.
2.   I bought it from a distributor who will supply the cert on request at no cost. (Tequipment.com)

Not all distributors do this, you have to ask if they do.
Not all Fluke DMM's have a detailed cert with actual readings available even if you ask.
Most will come with a "Statement of Calibration Practices" I think this is the one Dave was mentioning as worthless. http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/service/Traceable-Certificate-Of-Calibration.htm

This explains the types of cal available http://support.fluke.com/find_it.asp?document=3029357

An as found as left certification is $328.00

A full primary electrical lab certification (Accredited report of calibration) with as found and as calibrated data for the 8846A is $362.00 ( same cert as the one I posted above but with the as found values included. (as found is important to establish the long term stability of the meter)

I did talk to other suppliers when buying my meter and many had them in stock without the full cert and just said it does not come with one.

Lesson learned?  don't buy a meter without finding a distributor that will give a free cal cert (if available). in my case that was a $362.00 free bonus


« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 10:39:36 pm by robrenz »
 

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1020
  • Country: hu
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2012, 09:19:30 pm »
hmm i should have  asked for cal times and availablity for my 289 too, its from the fluke distributor in hungary :) it came with that little a4 paper just like the above posted 287, which is worthless, not all ranges not all functions

btw careful with those serial numbers, you know they hold the key for the instrument :) i dont know if it can be claimed to be yours if you dont have the original papers from the purchase
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2012, 09:50:39 pm »
Thanks, I missed blanking out that serial number on the first page.

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1020
  • Country: hu
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2012, 10:15:06 pm »
im glad i could help :) i dont think anyone from the forum would try to register someone else instrument to himself, but who knows better to be safe then sorry.
btw just checked the calibration paper for the 28x series it requires 50 step calibration since fw1.1. now on the paper what we get there is only 27 step listed as i see,
anyone could confirm that you can get a fluke instrument calibrated with certificate if you ask for it at purchase? its maybe available after purchase if you ask for it?
 

Offline steve_w

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • Country: au
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2012, 10:18:56 pm »
from an australian perspective to make the certificate "acceptable" it must be produced by a "NATA" (national association of testing agencies) accredited lab with accreditation for the class of instrument / measurement.

some traps for new players: An ISO9001 logo is a good sign but just because an organisation has ISO9001 does not mean that it cal cal instruments for other people. It needs accreditation from NATA , this is the australian body that verifies that calibration labs have correct standards and procedures. Other countries have similar bodies. NATA accreditation is accepted world wide (except in canada)  just as bodies in Australia accept other national testing agencies.

Another trap is that a nata accredited lab calibrates something outside its scope.  eg a lab accredited for calibration of length calibrates a volt meter. 

Things to make you feel uncomfortable: excessive use of logos and impressive seals.  No NATA number or test procedure number 
Things to make you feel comfortable: NATA registration number (or equivalent) that you can look up, Most accredited measurement labs will quote the measurement uncertainty

hope that helps

 
So long and thanks for all the fish
 

Online vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4946
  • Country: au
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2012, 01:24:58 am »
Yes,ISO 9001 just means that everything is always done in the same manner & is internally traceable throughout the process.
The problem with this,is if something dumb is done the first time,all subsequent iterations will use the same method.
It's great for an established procedure which has had the "bugs" ironed out,but not so good for a new product or procedure.

Some  manufacturing firms go "flat out",trying to get that ISO 9001 certification before the equipment design has been properly sorted out,with the result that improvements are not allowed to be implemented,as they are different to the established procedure.
One firm I was with was like that.
I don't know if they ever got their certification!
« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 09:41:01 am by vk6zgo »
 

Offline grenert

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 446
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2012, 04:20:41 am »
I also received a calibration certificate with an 8846A from Tequipment.  I didn't ask for or pay for one, but I got one anyway!   :)
 

Offline steve_w

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 190
  • Country: au
Re: Fluke 'Instrument Test Certificate'
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2012, 09:27:13 am »
Have a good look at what you got.  You may have received a test certificate.  This is a company final test certificate that is used to verify the product passed and is part of a standard quality system.

A calibration certificate is traceable to a national standard and is provided by an accredited test house.  If you are doing government work or satisfying a contract this will become an issue at product acceptance time as a test certificate won't cut it.

If you don't do this work the test certificate is fine.

regards

SW
So long and thanks for all the fish
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf