Author Topic: For the countries which need Radio and TV licenses. How TV Detector Vans work...  (Read 11954 times)

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Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Here in North America, I find this funny, but, here it is:


 

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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I wonder what happened when home computers became a thing, but you never tuned into any over the air TV broadcasts...

Were people nailed for that?
 

Offline langwadt

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we used to have a tv license, then it came a "media" license, meaning if you had either internet or tv you needed one. now it is just a tax because everyone need one anyway. But decades before that they they dropped the detector vans because pretty much everyone had a tv, so instead it made more sense to just go ask those that didn't have a license if they had a tv 
 

Offline Stray Electron

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

  Licenses are generally required for radio transmitters in the US and the FCC does monitor some transmitters but AFIK only when they they get a complaint about a specific person.  In that case they may send out a tam of investigators with whatever equipment that they need in order to investigate that specific allegation.
 

Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

  Licenses are generally required for radio transmitters in the US and the FCC does monitor some transmitters but AFIK only when they they get a complaint about a specific person.  In that case they may send out a tam of investigators with whatever equipment that they need in order to investigate that specific allegation.
They scanned for leakage from the LO (local oscillator) frequency.  In the US, the TV IF frequency is a fixed 45MHz.
These vans were replaced by Nielsen cable boxes which reported back to the cable companies which channels were being watched and when...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2025, 06:46:47 pm by BrianHG »
 
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Offline langwadt

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

  Licenses are generally required for radio transmitters in the US and the FCC does monitor some transmitters but AFIK only when they they get a complaint about a specific person.  In that case they may send out a tam of investigators with whatever equipment that they need in order to investigate that specific allegation.
They scanned for leakage from the LO (local oscillator) frequency.  In the US, the TV IF frequency is a fixed 45MHz.
These vans were replaced by Nielsen cable boxes which reported back to the cable companies which channels were being watched and when...

afaik Nielsen cable boxes was something you were offered (after random selecting) to do voluntarily and paid a small amount for

 

Offline Postal2

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Here in North America, I find this funny, but, here it is: .....
I will give you an example to think about. When journalists describing the life of the northern regions arrived in one of the villages, they arrived just at the moment when it was time to turn on the electricity supply. The diesel power station was in a sea-type container, the man opened it. But he did not start it right away. First, he carried buckets of fuel from a tanker standing 100 meters away. And when the journalists asked if it would not be easier to install a pipe, the man answered that the station works automatically, and if the pipe is installed, his position will not be needed. Therefore, the head of the district, out of pity for him (so as not to fire him), allows him to carry buckets of fuel.
 

Offline Bud

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I always found the concept of TV licensing bizarre. It is like you pay for your own brainwashing.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Online NE666

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I wonder what happened when home computers became a thing, but you never tuned into any over the air TV broadcasts...

Were people nailed for that?

I can't offer you any enlightenment as to whether anyone in the UK actually faced prosecution for it but in theory it was a possibility, as you were required to license any device which you held at your property that could act as a television receiver, regardless of whether you were actually using it as such. So if you had a television set as a video output for your Commodore 64, rather than a dedicated monitor (as most people did during the 8-bit era), the law stated that it was required to be licensed.
 

Offline langwadt

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I always found the concept of TV licensing bizarre. It is like you pay for your own brainwashing.

consider it like a library, the TV stations that get the license are required to produce and broadcast information to the public, cover important national events etc. and can do so without having to cater to advertisers and such
 

Offline Postal2

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consider it like a library, the TV stations that get the license are required to produce and broadcast information to the public, cover important national events etc. and can do so without having to cater to advertisers and such
Let them just encode them, and those who want to can buy the cards.
 

Offline Bud

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Why it has to be my problem what some TV station is required to do? If the Gov requires it, the Gov should pay for it.

Edit: and by the way, Public libraries are free, at least here.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Why it has to be my problem what some TV station is required to do? If the Gov requires it, the Gov should pay for it.

Edit: and by the way, Public libraries are free, at least here.

And how do you think the government pays for any of these things?
 
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Offline KE5FX

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I always found the concept of TV licensing bizarre. It is like you pay for your own brainwashing.

That's what Orwell got so amazingly wrong.  He thought the transition to totalitarianism would require threats and violence.  Instead, it's "Hey, there's a sale at WalMart on Samsung quantum-dot telescreens!  We should toss that old LCD out and get with the times.  The new one has a built-in Facebook app!"
 
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Offline themadhippy

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Quote
as you were required to license any device which you held at your property that could act as a television receiver, regardless of whether you were actually using it as such.
not quite, regardless of what the propaganda would have you believe.it was the act of receiving the broadcast that required a license,complete with quirks like needing a colour license if you had a black+white telly and a colour video recorder.However if the telly  was only used for example to watch  videos or hooked up to yer zx81  no license  needed.
 

Online PlainName

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as you were required to license any device which you held at your property that could act as a television receiver, regardless of whether you were actually using it as such.
not quite, regardless of what the propaganda would have you believe.it was the act of receiving the broadcast that required a license,complete with quirks like needing a colour license if you had a black+white telly and a colour video recorder.However if the telly  was only used for example to watch  videos or hooked up to yer zx81  no license  needed.

Happened to me. I used a B&W portable to play with my ZX81 but also to view TV. Got a knock on the door one day and it's the TV Licensing people, and it just so happened that I'd been doing some programming on the dining room table, so the antenna wasn't plugged in (didn't reach). They took a look and were happy that the TV wasn't used for watching programmes  :phew:
 
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Offline BrianHGTopic starter

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Quote
as you were required to license any device which you held at your property that could act as a television receiver, regardless of whether you were actually using it as such.
not quite, regardless of what the propaganda would have you believe.it was the act of receiving the broadcast that required a license,complete with quirks like needing a colour license if you had a black+white telly and a colour video recorder.However if the telly  was only used for example to watch  videos or hooked up to yer zx81  no license  needed.

Happened to me. I used a B&W portable to play with my ZX81 but also to view TV. Got a knock on the door one day and it's the TV Licensing people, and it just so happened that I'd been doing some programming on the dining room table, so the antenna wasn't plugged in (didn't reach). They took a look and were happy that the TV wasn't used for watching programmes  :phew:
So I can see this being an issue in the early days, or less forgiving circumstances...
 

Offline Haenk

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consider it like a library, the TV stations that get the license are required to produce and broadcast information to the public, cover important national events etc. and can do so without having to cater to advertisers and such

For Germany, the radio "tax" is intended to allow for a production and broadcast of politically neutral and informative program. However a huge part of that gigantic pile of money is now used for paying absurdly high pensions, even though the "tax" grows ever so often, the money used on the program is reduced on a regular base. Currently, the demanded rise in "tax payment" has been declined by state officials (I think for the first time in history), nevertheless the public broadcasters will receive their raise - they will take legal action against the expressed public and politic will, and they will succeed.
And: Of course the public broadcasters make excessive use of hidden and plain advertisement.
Good thing is, you can watch it in Danmark, for free. While we simply cannot watch danish TV, just across the border, even with the kids visiting the danish school. No, there is no way to obtain the required viewing accoung (unless someone "lends" it to you).
 

Offline wilfred

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I always found the concept of TV licensing bizarre. It is like you pay for your own brainwashing.
Public broadcasting in Australia was just funded by general tax revenue. I suppose it was because commercial broadcasting didn't reach remote areas  initially. But now you can get brainwashed for free everywhere with the internet. Although you still bear the cost in several ways, advertising, data collection, loss of privacy and security, and time wasted.

Gotta love progress.
 

Online Analog Kid

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

Er, I don't think things ever worked that way; this is approaching tinfoil-hat territory. Would that even be possible (detecting someone's TV receiver IF frequency from far away)? I doubt it.

So far as I know, all the TV ratings companies, like Nielsen, used designated groups of viewers who filled out forms showing what they were watching, and no high-tech snooping techniques like you're describing. (My best friend's mom used to work for Nielsen in Chicago.)
 

Offline vk6zgo

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

  Licenses are generally required for radio transmitters in the US and the FCC does monitor some transmitters but AFIK only when they they get a complaint about a specific person.  In that case they may send out a tam of investigators with whatever equipment that they need in order to investigate that specific allegation.
.                     
I think they monitored leakage from the local oscillator, as the IF frequency is always the same, no matter what channel you are watching.
 
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Online Analog Kid

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

  Licenses are generally required for radio transmitters in the US and the FCC does monitor some transmitters but AFIK only when they they get a complaint about a specific person.  In that case they may send out a tam of investigators with whatever equipment that they need in order to investigate that specific allegation.
.                     
I think they monitored leakage from the local oscillator, as the IF frequency is always the same, no matter what channel you are watching.

Sorry, to me that sounds every bit as dicey as people who claim that "they" are monitoring their brain waves ...
 

Offline vk6zgo

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I wonder what happened when home computers became a thing, but you never tuned into any over the air TV broadcasts...

Were people nailed for that?

I can't offer you any enlightenment as to whether anyone in the UK actually faced prosecution for it but in theory it was a possibility, as you were required to license any device which you held at your property that could act as a television receiver, regardless of whether you were actually using it as such. So if you had a television set as a video output for your Commodore 64, rather than a dedicated monitor (as most people did during the 8-bit era), the law stated that it was required to be licensed.
It was hardly a high tech conversion to go to off air receiving.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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  AFIK the US has never required licensing of home TVs so the GOV didn't need to snoop for tax purposes but the TV networks did have at least one annual event where the networks wanted to see how many people where watching their shows (the bigger the audience, the more that they could charge the advertisers).  I was told that they used hundreds of vans that drove around with equipment that could monitor the IF frequency of people's TVs and from the frequency they could tell what channel you were watching. 

  Licenses are generally required for radio transmitters in the US and the FCC does monitor some transmitters but AFIK only when they they get a complaint about a specific person.  In that case they may send out a tam of investigators with whatever equipment that they need in order to investigate that specific allegation.
.                     
I think they monitored leakage from the local oscillator, as the IF frequency is always the same, no matter what channel you are watching.

Sorry, to me that sounds every bit as dicey as people who claim that "they" are monitoring their brain waves ...

Do you have  VHF brainwaves?
Early valve/tube converter stages used fairly high LO levels, &    were detectable, so it was a real thing.



 

Offline TimFox

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The famous E H Scott SLRM short-wave receiver, used by the Merchant Marine and Navy during WW II, employed careful shielding to minimize the leakage of the local oscillator back to the antenna.
The first stage (tuned RF amplifier) used a 6K7 metal pentode with grid cap that had less leakage than the 6SK7 single-ended metal pentodes used in the IF amplifier.
This was intended to hinder submarines' tracking of surface vessels, and to minimize interference with other onboard systems.
("SLR" prefix referred to super-low radiation.)
E H Scott was not related to H H Scott.
 


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