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| Force multiplier |
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| pcprogrammer:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 02, 2023, 04:57:25 pm ---There are setups with two heat pumps in series in order to be able to achieve higher delta in temperature than it can be achieved with a single one but there is no energy advantage. --- End quote --- Since you have to have two compressors running you use more electrical power to get the higher output temperature, so it should not be that difficult to understand that there is no energy advantage. --- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 05:06:11 pm ---I don't understand C. Wouldn't the DC-to-DC converter not work without a reference to ground? --- End quote --- I was wondering about this too. What type of circuit can raise the voltage without having a ground reference? The example in b I can easily grasp. For a hydraulic system to work as a force multiplier the cylinder has to be fixed to some medium to allow displacement of the fluid within it. Example a depends a bit on the properties the red block. Can it move. If not then the forces should be the same since the blue construct will remain stationary even if both the wheels spin. If the red block can move the force will be different due to the differences in speed, but will also lead to the blue construct to move. Wow my brain has not been bothered with this kind of material since ages :-DD P.S. While typing and thinking other posts where written, which I did not check on their content. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: Stray Electron on February 02, 2023, 05:32:04 pm --- I don't know if you posted pictures of not but if you did then I don't see them so your "blue wire" comments means nothing to me. But to your point, without an electrical ground or a mechanical "ground" or some other frame of reference, then there is no such thing as voltage (Force) or mechanical Force so your whole question is meaningless. --- End quote --- Not sure why you do not see the image but here is a direct link if it helps http://electrodacus.com/temp/Forcem.png |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 02, 2023, 05:39:12 pm ---Since you have to have two compressors running you use more electrical power to get the higher output temperature, so it should not be that difficult to understand that there is no energy advantage. --- End quote --- There is no energy advantage. But you can obtain a higher temperature delta if that is needed. Heat pumps have a limit on the max temperature delta they can achieve so uning multiple stages you can get to lower temperatures. That will be needed in some applications like say cooling image sensors using 2 or 3 peltier stages. --- Quote from: pcprogrammer on February 02, 2023, 05:39:12 pm ---I was wondering about this too. What type of circuit can raise the voltage without having a ground reference? The example in b I can easily grasp. For a hydraulic system to work as a force multiplier the cylinder has to be fixed to some medium to allow displacement of the fluid within it. Example a depends a bit on the properties the red block. Can it move. If not then the forces should be the same since the blue construct will remain stationary even if both the wheels spin. If the red block can move the force will be different due to the differences in speed, but will also lead to the blue construct to move. Wow my brain has not been bothered with this kind of material since ages :-DD P.S. While typing and thinking other posts where written, which I did not check on their content. --- End quote --- No circuit can rise the voltage with a floating ground and that is the point of the example. All 3 examples shows that they can not work as intended so they can not do force or voltage multiplication. |
| pcprogrammer:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 02, 2023, 05:46:32 pm ---There is no energy advantage. But you can obtain a higher temperature delta if that is needed. Heat pumps have a limit on the max temperature delta they can achieve so uning multiple stages you can get to lower temperatures. That will be needed in some applications like say cooling image sensors using 2 or 3 peltier stages. --- End quote --- Yeah, that is what I tried to express. I know it is also used in house heating systems where there is a need for >60 degrees of water temperature due to the used radiators. --- Quote from: electrodacus on February 02, 2023, 05:46:32 pm ---No circuit can rise the voltage with a floating ground and that is the point of the example. All 3 examples shows that they can not work as intended so they can not do force or voltage multiplication. --- End quote --- Since you only mentioned that current being equal in example c I was thrown of a bit. It makes more sense knowing that the voltage is the same to understand it as intended. |
| pcprogrammer:
--- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 05:50:08 pm ---Example A vehicle will not move because it has no reference to ground. Its only references are that are through its wheels. In this case the right wheel is in reference to the belt on the right which is wanting to push it toward the left. However the wheel on the left is wanting to push it toward the right due to the power that it receives from its belt attached to both wheels. But it cannot move to the right because the force that is making it want to move to the right is equal to or less than the force that it is receiving through the right wheel and that force is making it want to move to the left. The only reference to ground that it has is through the red box on the left through the left wheel but that isn't enough, the vehicle itself is floating in mid air. Essentially cancelling themselves out. --- End quote --- That is why I questioned the red box. It only is valid if it can't move, and the system is in equilibrium. |
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