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| Force multiplier |
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| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: IanB on February 08, 2023, 06:37:23 pm --- --- Quote from: electrodacus on February 08, 2023, 06:28:48 pm ---You can als imagine having this in your hands right hand applies F1 and the left hand will apply the equal and opposite force F2 else there will be no F1 so Newton's 3'rd law pair. --- End quote --- Once again you are assuming something that isn't true. If you hold that object in your hands and try to apply opposing forces F1 and F2 then the object will simply move and rearrange itself to cancel out the forces, so that no force remains. It will be like trying to apply a force to an object that moves out of the way when you touch it. In reality there are no forces on that system, all forces are zero. --- End quote --- Please explain what part moves when you apply F1 = F2 ? There is no net force and F2 can not be anything other than equal and opposite to F1 The body when F5 = F6 acts is solid so there is nothing to rearrange and the F3 = F4 act on a material that can not deform. So there is no movement. |
| IanB:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 08, 2023, 06:47:49 pm ---Please explain what part moves when you apply F1 = F2 ? There is no net force and F2 can not be anything other than equal and opposite to F1 The body when F5 = F6 acts is solid so there is nothing to rearrange and the F3 = F4 act on a material that can not deform. So there is no movement. --- End quote --- How can the assembly be rigid when it has hinges and moving parts? You don't need to imagine this when you can easily make it with cardboard, paper fasteners and string. If you push on the two legs they will get closer together. |
| electrodacus:
--- Quote from: IanB on February 08, 2023, 06:53:49 pm --- How can the assembly be rigid when it has hinges and moving parts? You don't need to imagine this when you can easily make it with cardboard, paper fasteners and string. If you push on the two legs they will get closer together. --- End quote --- It will act as a rigid object even if it has hinges. I feel that you need to build this to test since you think there will be some movement when that is not the case. |
| IanB:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 08, 2023, 06:58:16 pm ---It will act as a rigid object even if it has hinges. I feel that you need to build this to test since you think there will be some movement when that is not the case. --- End quote --- I really have no need to do anything. It's not my problem. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 08, 2023, 03:35:20 pm --- --- Quote from: PlainName on February 08, 2023, 09:28:51 am --- Do you want to learn that it does indeed have something to do with the original problem, or must you hide under your safety blanket? Now, imagine the right wheel is not connected with a belt (and, sorry, I used 'horizontal belt' previously when I should has used 'treadmill' to save confusion). The wheel is locked rigid. You, the HoG or whatever push the vehicle to the right and that causes the treadmill to move to the right. I presume you are perfectly OK with that since it's pretty basic. So.. Let's say the vehicle moves to the right (via whatever strange force) at 2m/s. With a locked right wheel the treadmill will move to the right at 2m/s. Yes? Good. Clearly, any clockwise rotation of the right wheel will reduce the speed of the treadmill. We can thus have three distinct situations: 1. The connection between the wheels is 1:1 (that is, the left wheel drives the right wheel at the same speed). In this case, the vehicle moves right at 2m/s, the right wheel rotates at the same speed the vehicle is travelling and the treadmill is stationary. 2. The connection is 2:1 (that is, the left wheel drives the right wheel at half the speed). In this case the vehicle moves right at 2m/s and the treadmill moves right at 1m/s (since the right wheel is rotating slower than is necessary to keep up with the vehicle speed). 3. The connection is 1:2 (that is, the left wheel drives the right wheel at twice the speed). In this case the vehicle moves right at 2m/s and the treadmill moves left a 1m/s (since the right wheel is rotating faster than is necessary to keep pace with the vehicle speed). Do you agree with those? If not, which of 1..3 do you think is wrong? I can assure you that this will resolve your original problem if you stick with it. --- End quote --- As I mentioned in your imaginary setup the vehicle has 3 points of contact and that god will need to be real as a force will need to act against the vehicle body and not an imaginary one as you think. If a real force acts against the vehicle body then due to 3 separate forces acting on the different vehicle parts the vehicle will work as you mentioned. I already provided an example but in my example the vehicle body was rigidly connected to ground and in that case the mechanism acts as a functional gearbox and the red box can be moved by the treadmill and force acting on the box provided by left wheel can be 2x larger than the input force at the right wheel provided by the treadmill. --- End quote --- So, after all that, do you agree or not that each of the statements 1..3 in the context shown with the HoG, etc? If not, specifically which one are you stating is false? Just for the moment, if you can manage to control yourself, don't relate this to your problem. Just answer the question honestly, without distractions or diversions, and we can move on. |
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