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Force multiplier
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electrodacus:

--- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 05:50:08 pm ---
For a force multiplier to work it needs a reference to ground, something to push against.


--- End quote ---

Now prepare to be shocked  :)  as the vehicle in case a moves to the right so in the opposite direction of the applied force.
https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/wheel-cart-energy-storage-slow:8

It uses a combination of energy storage (belt is elastic) and stick slip histeresis. There is a minimum force needed for the front wheel to start to slip and once that happens force need to drop quite a bit for the wheel to stick again.
Nominal Animal:
No, not this again. |O


--- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 05:50:08 pm ---Example A vehicle will not move because it has no reference to ground.
--- End quote ---
Funnily enough, in the thread where this diagram first came up, I demonstrated an analogous vehicle (constructed of Lego) with sufficiently high gearing ratio does move.  I even used a worm gear, to ensure there is no energy storage nor slip-stick effects.  Didn't sway OP, because this is about belief and not physics for them.

The claimed diagram has very little to nothing to do with physics, it's just a drawing showing OP's beliefs.  That's fine, but don't mistake them to have any relation to physical, observable and measurable reality.


The exact Lego model I have, uses a worm gear to a vertical axis, with a pull string connected to that vertical axis.  (Rotating the vertical axis makes its wheels turn, but because of the worm gear, the wheels cannot rotate the vertical axis.)

Regardless of the horizontal direction you pull, if the model has sufficient traction, it will go forwards.  It travels just fine in the opposite direction compared to the direction you pull the string, for example; and just as well in the same direction you pull, and if sufficiently heavy (good traction), can travel faster in the direction you pull than you pull the string.  Last time, OP claimed was impossible, pivoting to 'possible only due to "slip-stick hysteresis"'.  There's nothing like that; basic proper Newtonian mechanics describes this perfectly, even if feels "weird" or unintuitive to most people.
Nominal Animal:
I forget who first described having done it in that other thread, but they tried basically the same thing with a heavy spool of soldering wire, with the wire coming off the spool at the bottom.  If the spool has sufficient traction (doesn't slip), pulling on the wire causes the spool to roll faster towards you than you pull the wire, re-spooling the wire back onto the spool!  Funky, eh?  But quite expected, physically speaking.
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 06:19:14 pm ---I will say that the original image does not mention anything about friction materials (eg rubber) being attached to the wheels. Something which I consider to be a failing.

It also doesn't cover nor mention if any of the objects are attached to the table.

A lot of assumptions need to be made.

I also have my doubts as to weather or not the electrical model is an exact comparison to the physical and hydraulic ones.

--- End quote ---

Yes the original image has no mention of energy storage or stick slip hysteresis.  The vehicle in the video can only work because it uses both energy storage and stick slip hysteresis. Removing either energy storage (harder to do) or stick slip hysteresis and vehicle will not move or move in the direction of the forced applied if back/left wheel can slip
Here is a video demonstrating that  https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/stick-slip-removed-from-front-wheels:0

So the diagram A) as it is is interpreted correctly as F2 can not be larger than F1. In real world there are other effects not considered in the simple theoretical model.

What I try to demonstrate is that a wind only powered vehicle can not move directly upwind without energy storage. And the same is true for any wind powered vehicle that moves directly downwind faster than wind.
A vehicle can only move faster than wind direct downwind for a limited amount of time based on the amount of stored energy.
But I could not explain how wind powered vehicle works since people did not understood what I call floating body on this vehicle.
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 02, 2023, 06:27:25 pm ---I forget who first described having done it in that other thread, but they tried basically the same thing with a heavy spool of soldering wire, with the wire coming off the spool at the bottom.  If the spool has sufficient traction (doesn't slip), pulling on the wire causes the spool to roll faster towards you than you pull the wire, re-spooling the wire back onto the spool!  Funky, eh?  But quite expected, physically speaking.

--- End quote ---

Glad to see you back.
Please explain how F2 can be larger than F1 without involving energy storage.
Also do you see any difference between A, B and C ?  Cand F2 be different from F1 in case B for example ? It seems case B is simpler to understand for most than case A even if they are equivalent.
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