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Force multiplier
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Nominal Animal:
No, I will not be sucked back to discussing your understanding of oversimplified models that only consider a couple of linear forces involved, and ignore the important things like the rotary forces (torque).

Your question here is the physics equivalent of "Have you stopped raping women yet?"
The entire premise of the diagrams modeling something is incorrect, thus all related questions are ill-posed, and trying to answer them correctly starts from correcting the model, which you flatly refuse.

Until you model the situation correctly, there is as much sense in trying to discuss/analyse/explain its details to you, as there would be discussing what the exact mechanism is that makes razor blades sharpen by themselves when placed inside a pyramid.

I do wish you well, electrodacus, but I do not believe I have the inner strength to help you understand; you're too convinced of your own beliefs.
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 06:37:47 pm ---Removed my post because it was full of errors.

Essentially what you've created in example A is equivalent to a rear wheel drive vehicle, and will move forward because its receiving rotational power and transferring that power to the rear wheel. It doesn't matter if its receiving that power from either a rotating engine or a slipping piece of paper. Paper slips a lot more easily on a table top than it does against a piece of rubber on a wheel so therefore your example videos do move forward.

It is not equivalent to examples B and C.

--- End quote ---

Let me explain what happens in that first video I linked.

Watch that at 0.25x speed to see the details.

When the paper starts to move it can only move because the belt is elastic so F1 is equal F2 vehicle is not moving but the input wheel rotates meaning energy is being stored as elastic energy.
F1 and F2 will still be equal and continue to increase until input wheel slips. At this point there is stored energy in the belt so inside the vehicle and that is what allows vehicle to be accelerated forward for a small amount of time until the front wheel sticks again and the process repeats.
So there is an energy storage device and F1=F2 until that stored energy is used to increase F2 as the front wheel slips.
This will not work if there was no energy storage and also if there was no stick slip hysteresis to allow triggering or charge and discharge cycles.

So all 3 cases A,B and C are equivalent as defined in the diagram and if I were to add the energy storage and stick slip hysteresis to A as definition then vehicle will work as seen in the video but F2 still equals F2 until the combination of slip at input wheel and stored energy is involved.
energy in still equals energy out is only that you have some power in and no power out when charging then you have power out when discharging and also power in but less power in while discharging thus the vehicle moves to the right. 
electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 02, 2023, 06:39:13 pm ---No, I will not be sucked back to discussing your understanding of oversimplified models that only consider a couple of linear forces involved, and ignore the important things like the rotary forces (torque).

Your question here is the physics equivalent of "Have you stopped raping women yet?"
The entire premise of the diagrams modeling something is incorrect, thus all related questions are ill-posed, and trying to answer them correctly starts from correcting the model, which you flatly refuse.

Until you model the situation correctly, there is as much sense in trying to discuss/analyse/explain its details to you, as there would be discussing what the exact mechanism is that makes razor blades sharpen by themselves when placed inside a pyramid.

I do wish you well, electrodacus, but I do not believe I have the inner strength to help you understand; you're too convinced of your own beliefs.

--- End quote ---


You said nothing with your comment.  What is it missing in the diagram A ? Energy storage and stick slip hysteresis ?
PlainName:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 02, 2023, 06:28:40 pm ---And the same is true for any wind powered vehicle that moves directly downwind faster than wind.

--- End quote ---

Wrong. Don't start this again, please. Just take your beliefs and believe them - you don't need converts to validate your belief if it's strong enough (and it surely is that, and then some).
tom66:

--- Quote from: bigfoot22 on February 02, 2023, 05:06:11 pm ---I don't understand C. Wouldn't the DC-to-DC converter not work without a reference to ground?

--- End quote ---

Indeed. 'C' does nothing but leak some uA through the transistors.  Definitely won't boost anything!
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