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Force multiplier

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cbutlera:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 06, 2023, 09:52:12 pm ---Fair point but in my examples as they are presented acceleration is not possible unless slip is allowed to occur and even then for case A if slip happens at right wheel (input wheel) then object of interest will still not move to the surface of the treadmill will be allowed to move.
...

--- End quote ---

Why is acceleration not possible?  What is restraining the vehicle from accelerating if the two forces are not equal?  You seem to have agreed with the point being made in the paper that the two forces in the N2-NF misconception are not Newton's third law force pairs, and so do not have to be equal and opposite when the object is not in static equilibrium.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: cbutlera on February 06, 2023, 10:08:04 pm ---
Why is acceleration not possible?  What is restraining the vehicle from accelerating if the two forces are not equal?  You seem to have agreed with the point being made in the paper that the two forces in the N2-NF misconception are not Newton's third law force pairs, and so do not have to be equal and opposite when the object is not in static equilibrium.

--- End quote ---

a) Acceleration is no possible if slip is not allowed.
b) If slip is allowed acceleration will be zero if the right wheel slips and acceleration will be nonzero if the left wheel slips.
c) If left wheel slips and there is acceleration F1 > F2 not the other way around as the gear ratio will suggest. F1 = F2 + m*a

A significant force is needed for wheels to slip as the gearbox in case A is locked same as if the wheels where welded to the frame.

Here is what happens if left wheels slip https://odysee.com/@dacustemp:8/stick-slip-removed-from-front-wheels:0

PlainName:

--- Quote ---a) Acceleration is no possible if slip is not allowed.
--- End quote ---

Why is slip not allowed?


--- Quote ---b) If slip is allowed acceleration will be zero if the right wheel slips and acceleration will be nonzero if the left wheel slips.
--- End quote ---

Are there really no states other than completely fixed or completely friction free? Press your finger hard against your desk and drag it. Does it drag the desk along as well or, alternatively, take zero effort to move your hand?

And now I am going to spank myself for getting involved again.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: PlainName on February 06, 2023, 11:06:42 pm ---Why is slip not allowed?

--- End quote ---

I need to mention this as some people think the vehicle can move without any slip.


--- Quote from: PlainName on February 06, 2023, 11:06:42 pm ---Are there really no states other than completely fixed or completely friction free? Press your finger hard against your desk and drag it. Does it drag the desk along as well or, alternatively, take zero effort to move your hand?

And now I am going to spank myself for getting involved again.

--- End quote ---

Not quite sure you read what I wrote at point b)
If the left wheel slips there will be acceleration and there will also be friction F1 = F2 + m * a
But that means it moves in the direction of applied force not in the opposite direction and it also means F1 > F2 not the other way around and the difference is just m*a

cbutlera:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 06, 2023, 10:27:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: cbutlera on February 06, 2023, 10:08:04 pm ---
Why is acceleration not possible?  What is restraining the vehicle from accelerating if the two forces are not equal?  You seem to have agreed with the point being made in the paper that the two forces in the N2-NF misconception are not Newton's third law force pairs, and so do not have to be equal and opposite when the object is not in static equilibrium.

--- End quote ---

a) Acceleration is no possible if slip is not allowed.
...

--- End quote ---

You have agreed that the two horizontal forces that act on the vehicle are not Newton's third law force pairs, and so they do not have to be equal and opposite in all circumstances.  When they are not equal and opposite, the vehicle will be subject to a net force.  This net force must cause the vehicle to accelerate, this is Newton's second law.  Are you claiming that this law should include the proviso that it is only true if something slips?

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