General > General Technical Chat

Force multiplier

(1/71) > >>

electrodacus:
I have 3 examples a) mechanical , b) hydraulic and c) electrical
All of them have floating body/cylinder/GND and thus F2 can not be different from F1 or in case of electric version output current will be the same as input.

Curious if you think any of this examples are not a good analog or if you think F2 will be different than F1.  I was trying to explain just the case a) but for some reason when I say floating body is the reason F2 = F1 people do not understand that and thing F2 can be 2x F1 or whatever the gear ratio is.
Only when the body of the vehicle (with blue) is connected to ground you can have force multiplication else F2 will be equal with F1.

Miyuki:
People do think that they can connect the heat pump to another heat pump and get extra free energy, even to run a heat engine with the output. 
Or to close it in a box to not accumulate ice  ::)
There are some major flaws in elementary science/physics teaching in almost all educational systems.
Or it is just too foreign a concept for people's brains, I don't know. 

TimFox:
In simple mechanics, a lever works to conserve energy/work by this multiplication:
W = F1 x S1 = F2 x S2
where F is the force on each end and S is the distance traveled on each end.
If you replace the distance S with speed v = dS/dt at each end, then you have the conservation of power F x v.
An obvious analog in electrical systems is a transformer, where the product of voltage and current (power) is the same at primary and secondary.

Stray Electron:

--- Quote from: electrodacus on February 02, 2023, 04:52:19 am ---I have 3 examples a) mechanical , b) hydraulic and c) electrical
All of them have floating body/cylinder/GND and thus F2 can not be different from F1 or in case of electric version output current will be the same as input.

Curious if you think any of this examples are not a good analog or if you think F2 will be different than F1.  I was trying to explain just the case a) but for some reason when I say floating body is the reason F2 = F1 people do not understand that and thing F2 can be 2x F1 or whatever the gear ratio is.
Only when the body of the vehicle (with blue) is connected to ground you can have force multiplication else F2 will be equal with F1.



--- End quote ---

   I'm assuming by F that you mean Force.  If so then F1 can be equal, greater or less than F2 in any system*.  But the Input and Output POWER will be same in all systems (minus internal losses such as friction or resistance in electrical systems).

   Power and Force are not the same thing. 

   * in electrical system examples could be a 1 to 1 transformer, a step up transformer, or a step down transformer. You can do exactly the same in hydraulic or pneumatic systems by varying the size of the cylinders relative to one another (look at the brake system in any vehicle).  In a mechanical system, you can vary the length of the levers relative to each other. Or you can vary gear rations, or pulley sizes.

electrodacus:

--- Quote from: Miyuki on February 02, 2023, 01:53:16 pm ---People do think that they can connect the heat pump to another heat pump and get extra free energy, even to run a heat engine with the output. 
Or to close it in a box to not accumulate ice  ::)
There are some major flaws in elementary science/physics teaching in almost all educational systems.
Or it is just too foreign a concept for people's brains, I don't know.

--- End quote ---

I think is a combination of both.  It is probably to abstract for most people and the educational system is not helping.
There are setups with two heat pumps in series in order to be able to achieve higher delta in temperature than it can be achieved with a single one but there is no energy advantage.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page