General > General Technical Chat

Free Energy Scams and Fakes

<< < (8/20) > >>

Terabyte2007:

--- Quote from: IanB on January 24, 2014, 06:46:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 05:44:11 pm ---I don't think that it would do anything to the grid load because it's not drawing power from the circuit, The EMF is just merely exciting the atoms in the gas to produce light.
--- End quote ---

Consider this more carefully. The alternating electric field is doing work on the atoms in the gas to excite them and cause them to emit radiation. From the first law of thermodynamics the energy to do that work has to come from somewhere. In this case it is the power line. However minuscule it is, there is in fact an energy drain on the conductor when you hold a gas discharge tube nearby and make it light up. To make an electric lamp light up you do have to feed power into it, or you would be getting energy from nowhere--which is the subject of this thread ;)

--- End quote ---

I am not saying that the energy is coming from nowhere. It is, the power lines! What I am saying is that HV power lines are emitting a fairly high level of EMF which is enough to excite the atoms in a gas tube. This energy is there all the time and is part of the loss from transmission lines. What I was saying, is that whether you have 1 FL tube or 300,000 FL tubes all lined up under the wires it should not effect the grid anymore than 1. Lets say I had (theoretically) 10,000 mW/M^2, and this was the energy that existed all along the HV power lines in question. Adding more of less in the way of gas tubes under these power lines would utilize the energy available but would not pull more from the grid. If I am wrong, please explain.

lewis:

--- Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:09:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: IanB on January 24, 2014, 06:46:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 05:44:11 pm ---I don't think that it would do anything to the grid load because it's not drawing power from the circuit, The EMF is just merely exciting the atoms in the gas to produce light.
--- End quote ---

Consider this more carefully. The alternating electric field is doing work on the atoms in the gas to excite them and cause them to emit radiation. From the first law of thermodynamics the energy to do that work has to come from somewhere. In this case it is the power line. However minuscule it is, there is in fact an energy drain on the conductor when you hold a gas discharge tube nearby and make it light up. To make an electric lamp light up you do have to feed power into it, or you would be getting energy from nowhere--which is the subject of this thread ;)

--- End quote ---

I am not saying that the energy is coming from nowhere. It is, the power lines! What I am saying is that HV power lines are emitting a fairly high level of EMF which is enough to excite the atoms in a gas tube. This energy is there all the time and is part of the loss from transmission lines. What I was saying, is that whether you have 1 FL tube or 300,000 FL tubes all lined up under the wires it should not effect the grid anymore than 1. Lets say I had (theoretically) 10,000 mW/M^2, and this was the energy that existed all along the HV power lines in question. Adding more of less in the way of gas tubes under these power lines would utilize the energy available but would not pull more from the grid. If I am wrong, please explain.

--- End quote ---

Where does the energy go when it's not lighting up fluorescent tubes?

SeanB:
The energy is stored in the capacitance of the line to ground. The energy is returned to the system. Adding the lights will add to the voltage drop along the line and will show up in the power factor of the line. There have been some prosecutions for this under the "Theft of electricity" laws in most countries.

Terabyte2007:

--- Quote from: lewis on January 24, 2014, 07:19:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:09:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: IanB on January 24, 2014, 06:46:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 05:44:11 pm ---I don't think that it would do anything to the grid load because it's not drawing power from the circuit, The EMF is just merely exciting the atoms in the gas to produce light.
--- End quote ---

Consider this more carefully. The alternating electric field is doing work on the atoms in the gas to excite them and cause them to emit radiation. From the first law of thermodynamics the energy to do that work has to come from somewhere. In this case it is the power line. However minuscule it is, there is in fact an energy drain on the conductor when you hold a gas discharge tube nearby and make it light up. To make an electric lamp light up you do have to feed power into it, or you would be getting energy from nowhere--which is the subject of this thread ;)

--- End quote ---

I am not saying that the energy is coming from nowhere. It is, the power lines! What I am saying is that HV power lines are emitting a fairly high level of EMF which is enough to excite the atoms in a gas tube. This energy is there all the time and is part of the loss from transmission lines. What I was saying, is that whether you have 1 FL tube or 300,000 FL tubes all lined up under the wires it should not effect the grid anymore than 1. Lets say I had (theoretically) 10,000 mW/M^2, and this was the energy that existed all along the HV power lines in question. Adding more of less in the way of gas tubes under these power lines would utilize the energy available but would not pull more from the grid. If I am wrong, please explain.

--- End quote ---

Where does the energy go when it's not lighting up fluorescent tubes?

--- End quote ---

It would be absorbed into the ground or other structures that might exist in close proximity. Think of it like a radio transmission but at much lower frequencies. If a radio transmission tower is broadcasting a signal at 50,000 watts, the energy that is being received by 1 radio or 1,000,000 radios does not change the wattage draw on the tower, right?

c4757p:

--- Quote from: Terabyte2007 on January 24, 2014, 07:29:31 pm ---If a radio transmission tower is broadcasting a signal at 50,000 watts, the energy that is being received by 1 radio or 1,000,000 radios does not change the wattage draw on the tower, right?

--- End quote ---

My suspicion is that it actually does, by an immeasurably small amount. I mean, yes, most of it is absorbed into the ground and such, but a resonant receiver like a radio is going to absorb it slightly more efficiently than dirt.

The transmitter won't consume more power, but that's due to its non-feedback topology, not the fact that there is more being drawn. The output signal strength would be decreased very slightly instead of the transmitter increasing power to compensate. If you brought a trillion radios into the vicinity all tuned to the same frequency, I suspect transmit power would need to be increased.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod