Author Topic: French Schuko is superior  (Read 2957 times)

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Online soldarTopic starter

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French Schuko is superior
« on: May 24, 2024, 02:51:42 pm »
In Spain we use the German version of the Schuko plug and socket and I do not like the way the Earth connection is made, with tabs that sometimes bend and which do not give me confidence that they make good contact. I also do not like that it is not polarized and you can plug in both ways.

I was recently in France and there I saw the French version and in my estimation it is superior.

The photos are of a very nice design where a cover springs out when no plug is there and it retracts when pushed by the plug. It gives a nice, flush, appearance to the wall.

But I appreciate the earth pin which I trust better for contact and which is less prone to bending or misbehaving. Definitely superior to the German version.

Also, the Earth pin forces only one way to plug it in and so the power pins could be polarized although, as far as I was able to ascertain, this is not the case.

The Wikipedia graphic attached shows both the German and the French versions as polarized but, AFAIK, this is not so.

Still, it would be easy to always put the live on the right.

Because Schuko plugs are compatible with both the German and the French type sockets my preference would be for French sockets and polarized.
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Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2024, 03:25:47 pm »
Well, it's happened again. I intended to post this in General Chat and it shows up in Beginners. It has happened to me before and I thought it was my mistake but this time I am quite sure I was in Chat so it might be something to do with my browser or something weird and it gets posted to beginners by default.

Anyway, Mods please move it at your discretion.
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Online pcprogrammer

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2024, 03:52:04 pm »
I never had problems with the quality outlets I had in the Netherlands. These are based on the German version, with the earth pins on the side. Ten times better in quality then even the more expensive NF brands like Legrand.

Having the socket polarized only works if every body connects them in the right way, and I can assure that that is not the case. I have even seen once that a qualified French electrician had reversed the connection coming from the meter board. How he managed to accomplish that is a riddle, since the blue and red colors are distinct enough to notice the swap.  :palm:

Another thing is that it also does not work when you use these narrow non grounded plugs like on USB power adapters. You can plug them in either way. And it does not matter, because it is AC.

Furthermore, I have plugs that don't have the ground pin receptacle, so useless here in France.

Never seen the fancy push in types your picture shows. Wonder how many insertions they last before something blocks or breaks.

Conclusion, I do not agree with you.  >:D

Offline m k

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2024, 04:09:46 pm »
Old wall jack contacts can be quite black from inside.

You obviously check visually all insertions.
And do nut use damaged stuff.

But yes, Schuko can be improved.
On the other hand, UK plug is pretty good, but not pretty.
I doubt French could accept that, on the other hand, they made SCART.
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2024, 03:42:22 am »
Yes it is.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2024, 10:06:40 am »
In Spain we use the German version of the Schuko plug and socket and I do not like the way the Earth connection is made, with tabs that sometimes bend and which do not give me confidence that they make good contact.
Your main problem is crappy quality of outlets. Just buy good quality outlets (from Niko, Gira, Jung, Busch-Jaeger to name a few quality brands) and the earth tabs will be OK for decades if not centuries.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 10:09:33 am by nctnico »
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Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2024, 11:44:14 am »
In Spain we use the German version of the Schuko plug and socket and I do not like the way the Earth connection is made, with tabs that sometimes bend and which do not give me confidence that they make good contact.
Your main problem is crappy quality of outlets. Just buy good quality outlets (from Niko, Gira, Jung, Busch-Jaeger to name a few quality brands) and the earth tabs will be OK for decades if not centuries.

It still seems to me that the French system has better assurance of making a good Earth contact and is probably cheaper to manufacture.

If I have a choice between two systems and one is more reliable and less expensive then I would call it superior. 

Add to that the fact that the French system only allows the plug to be inserted one  way and so allows for polarization and in my view it is far superior.
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Offline janoc

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2024, 01:08:00 pm »
It still seems to me that the French system has better assurance of making a good Earth contact and is probably cheaper to manufacture.

...
Add to that the fact that the French system only allows the plug to be inserted one  way and so allows for polarization and in my view it is far superior.

First, the "French" (those sockets are also used in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary and elsewhere, it is not a France-specific design) can and do suffer from the same kind of wear as the the regular German Schuko. Just the problem often happens on the plug side - if the contacts are worn and loose you will have a poor connection, esp. when people yank the plugs out of the outlets by the cable.

These sockets are also specifically to be always considered as not polarized, regardless of whether or not you can insert them only in one way. If you assume you have always live on the left and neutral on the right (with the earth pin at the top), sooner or later you will get shocked because there are many installations that don't follow this rule. There are also the T-splitters that reverse the polarity on one side - and they are completely legal and common in France and elsewhere. One has to always consider both wires as live and at a dangerous potential to earth. Never ever assume that the European mains plugs are polarized or you will get a bad surprise at some point.

The German Schuko design took this to the logical conclusion - nothing should ever rely on the polarity of the plug (e.g. switches in order to switch live and not neutral) - and made the plugs fit in either way. Which is often an advantage, esp. when trying to fit 90deg plugs into a poorly placed outlet.

In addition, there are plenty of installations that either have the earth pin not connected at all or (worse) tied to the neutral inside the outlet. So  :-//
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 01:17:08 pm by janoc »
 
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Online ejeffrey

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2024, 02:59:13 pm »

Add to that the fact that the French system only allows the plug to be inserted one  way and so allows for polarization and in my view it is far superior.

Even if the plugs were reliably wired polarized (which they are not) it's kind of silly since it only guarantees polarization for non grounded plugs.  Meanwhile, one of the biggest reason to use polarization is for Edison lamp sockets, which normally use 2 pin plugs.

My problem with shucko is mostly that there exist non grounded outlets at least in some countries, and there is no protection from inserting a plug that expects grounding present into an ungrounded outlet.  So not really a problem with shucko itself, but applies equally to both grounding styles.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2024, 03:07:51 pm »
Your picture of the EU Plug is wrong

- Phase is left
- Neutral is right

I have only JUNG (Made in Germany) outlets in my lab and they work just perfectly, all the time.
These are probably the best outlets I have seen in Germany.
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Offline janoc

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2024, 03:11:02 pm »

Even if the plugs were reliably wired polarized (which they are not) it's kind of silly since it only guarantees polarization for non grounded plugs.  Meanwhile, one of the biggest reason to use polarization is for Edison lamp sockets, which normally use 2 pin plugs.


You mean grounded plugs, the non-grounded two prong ones can be inserted either way.

Edison lamp sockets are a relic - and that's why in Europe one is taught to always pull the plug out of the wall before changing a bulb or doing any sort of work on the lamp fixture. Then the polarity of the plug, whether the plug, socket or switch are wired correctly, etc. is irrelevant.

There is no reason whatsoever to rely on plug polarity in connection with Edison lamp sockets. This used to be somewhat relevant for fixed installations where you are supposed to wire the live to the contact at the bottom of the socket because the sockets were often "naked" and fairly easily accessible to the touch. With the assumption that if you have neutral connected to the body of the socket, you are less likely to get shocked because it is a low potential with regards to the earth. Which is pretty specious (and dangerous) assumption at best, given the state of the wiring in many places.

These days you would be hard pressed to find a socket you could stick your fingers into and touch anything live with the bulb in place - everything is covered up. And even when there isn't a bulb in there one is meant to turn the power off before doing any work on the fixtures - and check that it is really off using a tester or multimeter.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2024, 03:12:34 pm by janoc »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2024, 03:52:38 pm »
Your picture of the EU Plug is wrong

- Phase is left
- Neutral is right
That is how I have been told to wire Schuko outlet as well. Just don't know what to do when the outlet is rotated by 90 degrees  ;D
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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2024, 04:19:48 pm »
Your picture of the EU Plug is wrong

- Phase is left
- Neutral is right
That is how I have been told to wire Schuko outlet as well. Just don't know what to do when the outlet is rotated by 90 degrees  ;D

To keep it interesting do it at random. It does not matter for the working of it.  :-DD

And with modern day child protection in the sockets, which I hate very much, you can't stick something in just a single hole without going to a large effort. Why I hate it so much is that sometimes even getting a proper plug in, seems impossible.

Offline tszaboo

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2024, 04:32:02 pm »
I lived in countries both of these standards and I 100% prefer the German Schuko. You cannot plug in two ways into the French one, so half the time it will be in an awkward angle. Cables block the socket next to it sometimes. It's also not compatible with a lot of plug packs, chargers. It also holds the cable less. It's a nuisance.
 

Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2024, 05:02:09 pm »
Your picture of the EU Plug is wrong

- Phase is left
- Neutral is right

I have only JUNG (Made in Germany) outlets in my lab and they work just perfectly, all the time.
These are probably the best outlets I have seen in Germany.
Not "my" picture. It is from Wikipedia, as I said.

And as far as I know there is no rule for polarization so, unless you can show some official standard, your rule is as valid as the opposite.

When I install things I tend to put live on right but that is just me and for my own consumption.
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Online nctnico

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2024, 05:16:17 pm »
Your picture of the EU Plug is wrong

- Phase is left
- Neutral is right
That is how I have been told to wire Schuko outlet as well. Just don't know what to do when the outlet is rotated by 90 degrees  ;D

To keep it interesting do it at random. It does not matter for the working of it.
True, but there has to be a standard to at least check the workmanship of the installers. If they got the order wrong, what else did they got wrong?
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Offline m k

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2024, 05:54:29 pm »
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Offline madires

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2024, 06:41:55 pm »
To keep it interesting do it at random. It does not matter for the working of it.
True, but there has to be a standard to at least check the workmanship of the installers. If they got the order wrong, what else did they got wrong?

AFAIK, the German VDE norms don't specify any rule for the polarity of the Schuko socket. There's only a recommendation to wire all sockets in a building the same. Some sparkies wire sockets with phase left and neutral right, others the other way around. IMHO, it doesn't make any sense to define any phase/neutral wiring standard for non-polarized sockets as plugs can be inserted in either way. If you want a polarized socket/plug use CEE blue (for single phase).
 

Offline m k

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2024, 11:08:58 am »
Once a dairy barn had a washing machine.
Then an electrician felt some tinglings and asked matron how the machine had worked.
She told that first it was prickling, but now with new rubber boots it's just fine.
The machine was too far from grounded Schuko wall socket.
So patron made an extension from two wire rubber cable and nulled it, as was the custom.
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2024, 12:00:59 pm »

AFAIK, the German VDE norms don't specify any rule for the polarity of the Schuko socket.


That is correct, but it is recommended that phase is left and neutral is right

Here is a new JUNG receptor.
It is hard to see but the connections are marked "L" "N"

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Offline tooki

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2024, 12:27:59 pm »
In Spain we use the German version of the Schuko plug and socket and I do not like the way the Earth connection is made, with tabs that sometimes bend and which do not give me confidence that they make good contact. I also do not like that it is not polarized and you can plug in both ways.

I was recently in France and there I saw the French version and in my estimation it is superior.

...
Just a little pedantic point: "Schuko" is, by definition, the German style. ("Schuko" is literally short for SCHUtzKOntakt, the German name for "protective contact", i.e. PE). This is CEE 7/4.

The French plug is CEE 7/6.

The "European" plug that fits BOTH CEE 7/3 (German) and 7/5 (French) sockets is the CEE 7/7 plug. This plug is often called "Schuko", but strictly speaking that is not correct.


See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CEE_7_standard_AC_plugs_and_sockets and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko
 

Offline madires

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2024, 01:33:21 pm »
Here is a new JUNG receptor.
It is hard to see but the connections are marked "L" "N"

Turn it by 180 ° .  >:D In some cases you want to mount the socket rotated by 90°. No left or right, but top and bottom. ;D
 

Offline m k

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2024, 02:40:24 pm »
Left and Low for L would be fine but Anglos are different, in so many ways.

Here it has changed, now it's right and down, like counting and clockwise.
But used to be the opposite.

It's possibly completely unknown to some, but these things can lead to indirect difficulties later.
Not so much with Schuko, but with "everything else" that are not directionless.
Most difficult it can be when the grid is isolated from earth and you've lived there all you life.

Schuko world is difficult when Neutral is included to the equation, before that it's simple, there are two equal wires for electricity.
But even with Neutral the difficulty is only in concept of difference, and only really something much later.
When from other direction it can be difficult to even use stuff that has mains connected sort of as you like.
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Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2024, 03:49:01 pm »
I have marked the live side on many of the outlets I use especially on my workbench.

Also, some of the extension cords I have marked the live at both ends.  It is useful, not only for mains AC but also for other applications with DC or where I am only using one conductor.

I am still convinced the Earth contact with the French system is much more reliable and better. I would bet the resistance of the contact is always lower with the French system; lower when new and with the difference increasing with time, use, dirt, etc.  I would be very surprised if it turned out to be the other way around.
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2024, 04:03:08 pm »
I have marked the live side on many of the outlets I use especially on my workbench.

Also, some of the extension cords I have marked the live at both ends.  It is useful, not only for mains AC but also for other applications with DC or where I am only using one conductor.

I am still convinced the Earth contact with the French system is much more reliable and better. I would bet the resistance of the contact is always lower with the French system; lower when new and with the difference increasing with time, use, dirt, etc.  I would be very surprised if it turned out to be the other way around.
Why would you do this? Everything with that cable is either double insulated or earthed metal enclosure.
And why would you ever place DC into this socket?
The issue is not with the plug, it's between the keyboard and the chair.
 

Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2024, 04:12:11 pm »
I have marked the live side on many of the outlets I use especially on my workbench.

Also, some of the extension cords I have marked the live at both ends.  It is useful, not only for mains AC but also for other applications with DC or where I am only using one conductor.

I am still convinced the Earth contact with the French system is much more reliable and better. I would bet the resistance of the contact is always lower with the French system; lower when new and with the difference increasing with time, use, dirt, etc.  I would be very surprised if it turned out to be the other way around.
Why would you do this? Everything with that cable is either double insulated or earthed metal enclosure.
And why would you ever place DC into this socket?
The issue is not with the plug, it's between the keyboard and the chair.
it seems you have totally misinterpreted my post because you are responding to things I did not say or imply.
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2024, 04:14:11 pm »
I have marked the live side on many of the outlets I use especially on my workbench.

Also, some of the extension cords I have marked the live at both ends.  It is useful, not only for mains AC but also for other applications with DC or where I am only using one conductor.

I am still convinced the Earth contact with the French system is much more reliable and better. I would bet the resistance of the contact is always lower with the French system; lower when new and with the difference increasing with time, use, dirt, etc.  I would be very surprised if it turned out to be the other way around.
Why would you do this? Everything with that cable is either double insulated or earthed metal enclosure.
And why would you ever place DC into this socket?
The issue is not with the plug, it's between the keyboard and the chair.
it seems you have totally misinterpreted my post because you are responding to things I did not say or imply.
Must be a language problem.
But then there is a picture...
 

Offline m k

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2024, 05:40:19 pm »
It's the primary side and a scope.
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Offline Haenk

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2024, 06:45:56 pm »
Once a dairy barn had a washing machine.
Then an electrician felt some tinglings and asked matron how the machine had worked.

We had that in a danish feriehuset. I seems they had some older wiring, only earthing for wet areas, no earthing for everywhere else. Of couse genious house owner used an extension cord "no gound" to "ground" (what a great invention to kill yourself), since that was required for the washing machine. So once I touched the metal casing and felt a slight tingling, my wife was instructed to pull the plug before touching it, and only use a platic wiper to operate the buttons.
That tingling likely was only a leaking cap and no earth fault, but still.

Oh: And I never had a Schuko failed on me, ever. The earthing will *not* get bent, even if you try. There is only one possible failure: Very old plugs were made of Bakelit, which might break if dropped or mechanically stressed.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2024, 06:49:17 pm by Haenk »
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2024, 11:11:31 pm »

AFAIK, the German VDE norms don't specify any rule for the polarity of the Schuko socket.


That is correct, but it is recommended that phase is left and neutral is right
I also learned that, an old electrician told me in the 90s that this is because of kids.
They tend to put metal nails, wires, paperclips etc in the hole and the majority is right handed and puts it default in the right hole.
Could be bullshit but it seemed plausible to me back in the day before RCDs were mandatory, too bad for lefties.

Personally I think the Shuko from 1925 and the sorts are outdated.
I am using as much Wieland GST18i3 as possible, 20A instead of 16A , polarized , anti pull clip for one time connections like the coffeemaker, dishwasher etc.
Still can't convince the wife
 

Offline Rafiki

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2024, 10:21:58 am »

AFAIK, the German VDE norms don't specify any rule for the polarity of the Schuko socket.


That is correct, but it is recommended that phase is left and neutral is right
...
By whom? Some German internal clique or some international (or European at least) standardization community? Schuko isn't a German thing only.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #31 on: May 27, 2024, 01:23:21 pm »
By whom? Some German internal clique or some international (or European at least) standardization community? Schuko isn't a German thing only.
Indeed over 40 countries

 

Offline langwadt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2024, 02:18:49 pm »
Once a dairy barn had a washing machine.
Then an electrician felt some tinglings and asked matron how the machine had worked.

We had that in a danish feriehuset. I seems they had some older wiring, only earthing for wet areas, no earthing for everywhere else. Of couse genious house owner used an extension cord "no gound" to "ground" (what a great invention to kill yourself), since that was required for the washing machine. So once I touched the metal casing and felt a slight tingling, my wife was instructed to pull the plug before touching it, and only use a platic wiper to operate the buttons.
That tingling likely was only a leaking cap and no earth fault, but still.

Oh: And I never had a Schuko failed on me, ever. The earthing will *not* get bent, even if you try. There is only one possible failure: Very old plugs were made of Bakelit, which might break if dropped or mechanically stressed.

In Denmark the common problem is that appliances often come with a schuko plug, which will fit in a Danish socket but it doesn't connect earth without an adapter

 

Offline jitter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #33 on: May 29, 2024, 08:01:14 pm »
In addition, there are plenty of installations that either have the earth pin not connected at all or (worse) tied to the neutral inside the outlet. So  :-//

I would definitely prefer PE to be tied to N over it to be left floating. In the end PE and N connect to the same earth anyway. And, there are some earthing systems that actually combine PE and N, e.g. the TN-C system.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2024, 08:05:38 pm by jitter »
 

Offline Haenk

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2024, 12:22:27 pm »
I am using as much Wieland GST18i3 as possible, 20A instead of 16A , polarized , anti pull clip for one time connections like the coffeemaker, dishwasher etc.
Still can't convince the wife

I only pull those once every couple of years when the machine failed and needs repair/replacement. No reason to buy expensive Wieland stuff 8)
And: A Schuko plug does not come out easily, that usually requires some force. (The 2-prong-"Euro"-plug is another story though.)
 

Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2024, 01:09:37 pm »
I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2024, 01:13:51 pm »
I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
Sounds more like they should be using outlets with a cover (or fix the covers).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online Siwastaja

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2024, 01:27:42 pm »
I would definitely prefer PE to be tied to N over it to be left floating. In the end PE and N connect to the same earth anyway. And, there are some earthing systems that actually combine PE and N, e.g. the TN-C system.

There is nothing to "prefer". If PE is "left floating" in a socket, is not just against code, it's a serious criminal offense; whoever did the installation should be investigated by the police. And, in all systems, PE is connected to N, the only question between the systems is exactly where. In old installations, it's well possible connecting PE and N together at the socket was completely legal, and normal during the time. Leaving PE unconnected never was legal. Because connecting N and PE together must be done with extreme care (risk of misidentification of N), it is understandable how connecting them together at socket has later become illegal, to minimize the number of places where this fatal wiring mistake can happen.

It's worth understanding though that where and how PE & N are connected is important for safety, so one must always treat N as live, and only PE as PE, and never assume otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 01:33:02 pm by Siwastaja »
 
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Online soldarTopic starter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2024, 01:28:01 pm »
Sounds more like they should be using outlets with a cover (or fix the covers).

I do not think the problem arises when it is plugged in but when the plug is just lying around in the dust.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
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Offline jitter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2024, 07:20:45 pm »
I would definitely prefer PE to be tied to N over it to be left floating. In the end PE and N connect to the same earth anyway. And, there are some earthing systems that actually combine PE and N, e.g. the TN-C system.

There is nothing to "prefer". If PE is "left floating" in a socket, is not just against code, it's a serious criminal offense; whoever did the installation should be investigated by the police. And, in all systems, PE is connected to N, the only question between the systems is exactly where. In old installations, it's well possible connecting PE and N together at the socket was completely legal, and normal during the time. Leaving PE unconnected never was legal. Because connecting N and PE together must be done with extreme care (risk of misidentification of N), it is understandable how connecting them together at socket has later become illegal, to minimize the number of places where this fatal wiring mistake can happen.

It's worth understanding though that where and how PE & N are connected is important for safety, so one must always treat N as live, and only PE as PE, and never assume otherwise.

The police may get involved when a death occurs due to electrocution but other than that, there's no supervision whatsoever on electrical installations. At least not in this country. There are lots of rules and regulations, but no enforcement.
Line and neutral must be treated as live, yes, but a break in a PE conductor would mean it too becomes live in a fault scenario. I recently found out by accident that the sockets in my kitchen had a severed earth connection in a junction box. This situation could have been around for 15 years or more, part of which I didn't even have RCD protection as the install was done in 1960 and back then they weren't required.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 07:22:32 pm by jitter »
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2024, 08:26:40 pm »
I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
He needs the blue industrial quality extension cord style Schukos like picture below.
Or even better switch to the IEC 60309 blue 2p+e 16A version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2024, 08:44:55 pm »
Quote
Or even better switch to the IEC 60309 blue 2p+e 16A version:

if its on construction sites the ceeforms should  really be yellow,not blue
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #42 on: May 31, 2024, 09:12:28 pm »
Quote
Or even better switch to the IEC 60309 blue 2p+e 16A version:

if its on construction sites the ceeforms should  really be yellow,not blue
AFAIK that depends on the country voltage. See link above.
Quote
The colour of the housing indicates the type of power available. The primary distinction is by rated operating voltage, as follows:

 
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Online themadhippy

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2024, 09:31:27 pm »
Quote
AFAIK that depends on the country voltage.
Its not a case of the countrys supply voltage but a case of using a 110V (55v to earth) supply on construction sites
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2024, 09:53:04 pm »
Quote
AFAIK that depends on the country voltage.
Its not a case of the countrys supply voltage but a case of using a 110V (55v to earth) supply on construction sites
In the UK then, we don't have those voltages in our country, nor in Germany.
That is what I mean with countrys voltage dependency.
On our construction sites it is almost always 3 phase 380V so red connectors and there are the exchange poles that take 3 times 1 phase of the three to a blue 230V connector.
 
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2024, 09:53:45 pm »
.  Doublepost error
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 08:24:01 am by Kjelt »
 

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #46 on: May 31, 2024, 10:58:36 pm »
And, in all systems, PE is connected to N, the only question between the systems is exactly where.
IT (and in some interpretations TT, most electricians wouldn't consider an ill defined high impedance paths back through the dirt "connected") enters the chat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system#IT_network
 

Offline jitter

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2024, 10:15:48 am »
In the IT-system ("isolé-terre"), there's no connection of the starpoint to earth at the transformer side. This means there's no current return path to the transformer and hence no current can flow back to it through the earth (other than caused by parasitic capacitance). Since the consumer side does have earth, earthed parts remain at earth potential even if there were a line to earth fault present. 

What a single line to earth fault does do is create mains earth referencing, and with it a current path. If you then were to touch one of the other two phases, you would get a shock and potentially a lethal current. This system is only used when a single isolation fault must not interrupt power supply and must be monitored by a system that detects line to earth faults.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 10:19:58 am by jitter »
 

Offline tooki

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2024, 12:05:50 pm »
I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
Sounds more like they should be using outlets with a cover (or fix the covers).

I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
He needs the blue industrial quality extension cord style Schukos like picture below.
Or even better switch to the IEC 60309 blue 2p+e 16A version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309


Guys, guys… soldar said the strips in the plugs, not the receptacles, get dirty. So covered receptacles won’t help the situation described.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2024, 12:15:39 pm »
Quote
soldar said the strips in the plugs, not the receptacles, get dirty. So covered receptacles won’t help the situation described.
covers wont,but the design of ceeforms make it less likely for the plugs  to get as bunged up with dirt
 

Offline tooki

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2024, 12:30:10 pm »
Quote
soldar said the strips in the plugs, not the receptacles, get dirty. So covered receptacles won’t help the situation described.
covers wont,but the design of ceeforms make it less likely for the plugs  to get as bunged up with dirt
Yes, but not the point.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #51 on: June 01, 2024, 06:58:52 pm »
I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
Sounds more like they should be using outlets with a cover (or fix the covers).

I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
He needs the blue industrial quality extension cord style Schukos like picture below.
Or even better switch to the IEC 60309 blue 2p+e 16A version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309


Guys, guys… soldar said the strips in the plugs, not the receptacles, get dirty. So covered receptacles won’t help the situation described.
Well, dirt is a whole lot easier to remove from exposed strips compared to getting dirt out of a hole. So either way the 'French' schuko is not an improvement in this case.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #52 on: June 01, 2024, 10:31:02 pm »
Perhaps the guy in the dusty construction area now understands why there are cases to put your tools in when not in use, and when in use leave it plugged in  :)
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2024, 11:59:30 am »
There are special construction site outlets.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2024, 12:13:56 pm »
I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
Sounds more like they should be using outlets with a cover (or fix the covers).

I was just talking to a guy who works with electric tools outdoors and in very dusty construction sites and he was telling me he doesn't like how the metal strips in the Schuko plugs get covered and clogged with dust, dirt, etc. and need to be cleaned out.
He needs the blue industrial quality extension cord style Schukos like picture below.
Or even better switch to the IEC 60309 blue 2p+e 16A version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309


Guys, guys… soldar said the strips in the plugs, not the receptacles, get dirty. So covered receptacles won’t help the situation described.
Well, dirt is a whole lot easier to remove from exposed strips compared to getting dirt out of a hole. So either way the 'French' schuko is not an improvement in this case.
Maybe. But the hole on the end of the plug likely doesn’t collect as much dirt as the slots on the sides of the plug!

I’m glad I don’t have to deal with any of this, since the Swiss plug has 3 (or 5, for 3-phase) male pins on the plug. :)
 

Offline madires

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Re: French Schuko is superior
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2024, 02:05:28 pm »
For industrial or construction sites you can simply use the blue CEE mains plug (blue for 230V single phase, the little brother of the 3-phase CEE, see IEC 60309).
 


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