General > General Technical Chat

"FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!

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TimFox:
I don't know the difference between US and Australian law on cards, but in US the customer protection on credit cards is better than on debit cards, which are governed by separate laws.
See  https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards-safer-than-debit-cards/  for a US perspective.

andy2000:

--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 26, 2020, 01:44:12 pm ---No, actually we both only use only Debit Cards now !!!
But we can use them like a 'Credit' card...

--- End quote ---

Credit cards are much safer than debit cards because they don't have direct access to your bank account.

gnif:

--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 26, 2020, 01:11:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: Jeroen3 on June 26, 2020, 01:04:03 pm ---Are you still using magstrip over there?

--- End quote ---

Yes it is used, but all 'our' cards are digitally scanned, via a chip that 'looks' like a phone Sim-Card...

--- End quote ---

No, it is not, the cards still have a mag strip on them but only for backwards compatibility with foreign countries. You can not use the strip in Australia. If you're never going to leave the country, just degauss it or run a strong magnet over it several times and destroy the data stored on the strip.

As for the 'looks' like a phone sim-card chip... it's not "digitally scanned", it's a microcontroller with full cryptography support and is able to sign payloads with a private key. As it's signing a payload the key is never exposed and is impossible for a skimmer to easily or quickly clone it. It actually is the identical technology used for sim-cards, the only difference is what's stored on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_card
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_7810
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_7816

Online shops could be the culprit but far more likely someone took a picture of it, or you have malware on your PC logging the details, or someone fell for a phishing attack.


--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on June 26, 2020, 01:44:12 pm ---But we can use them like a 'Credit' card...

--- End quote ---

"Like" is the operative word there, we learned this the hard way when we purchased about $1000 worth of goods from a local bathroom supplier for a renovation, only to find he was bankrupt and used our funds to pay off someone else. We found out when we went to find out what the state of our order was and he was having a fight with another person (builder) who was just walking out with his floor stock to try to recover his lost funds also. Because we paid with the debit card we had no recourse and lost our money. I was understandably angry and went in there with a court order and a police officer who allowed me to take what I wanted up to the estimated value lost, unfortunately in the time it took to get that sorted there was little left.

Long story short, never use your debit card for purchases! Use a credit card, just always pay it off the same day you put money on it so you never get hit with interest. Usually, you also get insurance on your credit card for purchases of items like Cameras, Computers, etc. by default. I have used it once to replace a Cannon flash that was broken by Quantas due to rough handling of my luggage.

Simon:
i have had my debit card done every 3-4 years on average. I think every time it was a petrol station. I now use a credit card given the slightly better protection.

Another method is a dodgy employee of a company. Basically it will never not happen, it's how it can be dealt with.

Syntax Error:
Unfortunetly the mag stripe is here to stay >:(

Here in Europe we have been using chip and pin for ages, even now contactless, but still the card number is encoded on the mag stripe. I once asked a banking card systems security guy why this antique is still there, and his response was, "it's the f**king Americans!" The USA insists on using the mag stripe because it would cost retailers more to upgrade to chip and pin, than they lost in fraudulent transactions from cloned cards. And the banks didn't give a crap about card security anyway. He added some states still use paper carbon imprinting - remember those?

Worse, cash machines scan the mag stripe, not the chip. You can try this by erasing the mag stripe with a neodimium magnet. It will still work with the chip and contactless too, but won't work in a cash machine. Or a card skimmer.

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