Author Topic: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!  (Read 13286 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: au
  • Medically retired Tech. Old School / re-learning !
"FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« on: June 26, 2020, 12:13:01 pm »
YES, we all use them now, and 'hope' that it all goes ok when we purchase things every day...
My 'missus', (7:30pm here), just got a call from her Bank. (Yes, it's legitimate). It seems she has
lost about $3,000 from her account, beginning at about 4.00am this morning. We are generally
SO meticulous about on-line transactions. And ONLY use Paypal also, for any transactions.

The Bank said that the 1st 'transaction' was from Sydney. (We are in W.A.).  And then there were
5 other transactions from 'Italy'... immediately afterwards!!??  They presently 'suspect' a 'skimming'
device, although we can not understand how?  I CAN'T imagine a Supermarket Teller device having
a 'skimming' device. So it's either an 'ATM' or a corrupt online purchase.

They PROMISE she will get all her money back!, but I don't know what more we can do to stop this
in the future!  'I'm' generally well educated about so-called 'skimming' devices at an ATM. I 'look' for
them, and think I would know...  So it's back to 'on-line' liars/schemers.  They should be SHOT!!    >:(
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline dr.diesel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2214
  • Country: us
  • Cramming the magic smoke back in...
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 12:43:43 pm »
So it's either an 'ATM' or a corrupt online purchase.

Or local restaurants, pretty easy to snap a picture of the card when eating out.

This happens to me once every 1-2 years, nothing you can really do about it.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline SilverSolder

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6126
  • Country: 00
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 12:49:53 pm »

A few years ago, my wife had an attack on her credit card.  The bank called, the card was cancelled, and a new card was sent in the mail.

A few weeks later, the bank called again and said there had been another attack...   on the new credit card...   a card which had never been used!   :o


Seems the scammers sometimes have better systems than the banks...

 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Jeroen3

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4209
  • Country: nl
  • Embedded Engineer
    • jeroen3.nl
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 01:04:03 pm »
Are you still using magstrip over there?
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Rerouter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4705
  • Country: au
  • Question Everything... Except This Statement
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2020, 01:05:31 pm »
What is easier, breaking into 2-3 letter boxes and maybe getting the cards, or cycling slowly around a neighborhood on the footpath near letter boxes with a high power RFID scanner and catching every one with no trace of your action?

Never underestimate laziness.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Online wraper

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 17952
  • Country: lv
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2020, 01:07:41 pm »
They PROMISE she will get all her money back!, but I don't know what more we can do to stop this
in the future!  'I'm' generally well educated about so-called 'skimming' devices at an ATM. I 'look' for
them, and think I would know...  So it's back to 'on-line' liars/schemers.  They should be SHOT!!    >:(
They often are installed inside a device. Say self service at gas pumps.

 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Online langwadt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4857
  • Country: dk
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2020, 01:09:01 pm »
So it's either an 'ATM' or a corrupt online purchase.

Or local restaurants, pretty easy to snap a picture of the card when eating out.

This happens to me once every 1-2 years, nothing you can really do about it.

yeh happened to me too, bank noticed suspicious activity closed card, send me a new and refunded the money with no fuss

here everything is chip and pin so usually no one gets to look closely at your card, before that I put a piece of tape over the 3 digit checkcode on the back of the card, that makes it a little harder to get all the info needed for most online purchases with a quick look at the card
 

 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: au
  • Medically retired Tech. Old School / re-learning !
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2020, 01:11:37 pm »
Are you still using magstrip over there?

Yes it is used, but all 'our' cards are digitally scanned, via a chip that 'looks' like a phone Sim-Card...
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline ConKbot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1400
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2020, 01:34:20 pm »
Given the (understandably) sour attitude, I'm assuming this was a bank debit card?   If feasible, in the future, use a credit or charge card, and let them put their cash on the line, not yours. Preferably with a company that is known for good customer service.  I have yet had to mark a transaction as fraudulent on my own with American Express, as their fraud detection is so on point that they catch it first. Get a text/email "we blocked this transaction, please call customer service" call, confirm it wasn't me, and new card is shipped out.  Mild annoyance of waiting 2 days for a card, instead of weeks of the bank wasting time getting my cash back in my account.
 
The following users thanked this post: Bassman59, GlennSprigg

Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: au
  • Medically retired Tech. Old School / re-learning !
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2020, 01:44:12 pm »
Given the (understandably) sour attitude, I'm assuming this was a bank debit card?   If feasible, in the future, use a credit or charge card, and let them put their cash on the line, not yours. Preferably with a company that is known for good customer service.  I have yet had to mark a transaction as fraudulent on my own with American Express, as their fraud detection is so on point that they catch it first. Get a text/email "we blocked this transaction, please call customer service" call, confirm it wasn't me, and new card is shipped out.  Mild annoyance of waiting 2 days for a card, instead of weeks of the bank wasting time getting my cash back in my account.

No, actually we both only use only Debit Cards now !!!
But we can use them like a 'Credit' card...
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8995
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2020, 02:30:48 pm »
I don't know the difference between US and Australian law on cards, but in US the customer protection on credit cards is better than on debit cards, which are governed by separate laws.
See  https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/are-credit-cards-safer-than-debit-cards/  for a US perspective.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki, GlennSprigg

Online andy2000

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 260
  • Country: us
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2020, 02:39:58 pm »
No, actually we both only use only Debit Cards now !!!
But we can use them like a 'Credit' card...

Credit cards are much safer than debit cards because they don't have direct access to your bank account.
 
The following users thanked this post: Bassman59, thm_w, tooki, GlennSprigg

Offline gnif

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1716
  • Country: au
  • Views and opinions are my own
    • AMD
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2020, 03:56:04 pm »
Are you still using magstrip over there?

Yes it is used, but all 'our' cards are digitally scanned, via a chip that 'looks' like a phone Sim-Card...

No, it is not, the cards still have a mag strip on them but only for backwards compatibility with foreign countries. You can not use the strip in Australia. If you're never going to leave the country, just degauss it or run a strong magnet over it several times and destroy the data stored on the strip.

As for the 'looks' like a phone sim-card chip... it's not "digitally scanned", it's a microcontroller with full cryptography support and is able to sign payloads with a private key. As it's signing a payload the key is never exposed and is impossible for a skimmer to easily or quickly clone it. It actually is the identical technology used for sim-cards, the only difference is what's stored on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_card
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_7810
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO/IEC_7816

Online shops could be the culprit but far more likely someone took a picture of it, or you have malware on your PC logging the details, or someone fell for a phishing attack.

But we can use them like a 'Credit' card...

"Like" is the operative word there, we learned this the hard way when we purchased about $1000 worth of goods from a local bathroom supplier for a renovation, only to find he was bankrupt and used our funds to pay off someone else. We found out when we went to find out what the state of our order was and he was having a fight with another person (builder) who was just walking out with his floor stock to try to recover his lost funds also. Because we paid with the debit card we had no recourse and lost our money. I was understandably angry and went in there with a court order and a police officer who allowed me to take what I wanted up to the estimated value lost, unfortunately in the time it took to get that sorted there was little left.

Long story short, never use your debit card for purchases! Use a credit card, just always pay it off the same day you put money on it so you never get hit with interest. Usually, you also get insurance on your credit card for purchases of items like Cameras, Computers, etc. by default. I have used it once to replace a Cannon flash that was broken by Quantas due to rough handling of my luggage.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 04:13:24 pm by gnif »
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2020, 04:06:22 pm »
i have had my debit card done every 3-4 years on average. I think every time it was a petrol station. I now use a credit card given the slightly better protection.

Another method is a dodgy employee of a company. Basically it will never not happen, it's how it can be dealt with.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Syntax Error

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: gb
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2020, 04:15:16 pm »
Unfortunetly the mag stripe is here to stay >:(

Here in Europe we have been using chip and pin for ages, even now contactless, but still the card number is encoded on the mag stripe. I once asked a banking card systems security guy why this antique is still there, and his response was, "it's the f**king Americans!" The USA insists on using the mag stripe because it would cost retailers more to upgrade to chip and pin, than they lost in fraudulent transactions from cloned cards. And the banks didn't give a crap about card security anyway. He added some states still use paper carbon imprinting - remember those?

Worse, cash machines scan the mag stripe, not the chip. You can try this by erasing the mag stripe with a neodimium magnet. It will still work with the chip and contactless too, but won't work in a cash machine. Or a card skimmer.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline greenpossum

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 408
  • Country: au
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2020, 04:27:50 pm »
No, it is not, the cards still have a mag strip on them but only for backwards compatibility with foreign countries. You can not use the strip in Australia.

Of course you still can. Lots of card terminals still have the magstripe reader. It's the second fall back after NFC and chip.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2020, 04:30:34 pm »
In the UK the rate of fraud recovery is low, the bank just refund you and you never think to tell the police and the bank cannot be arsed either.
 

Offline rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3667
  • Country: us
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2020, 04:33:55 pm »
Since about 2 years ago it has been almost completely chip readers used here. Took me months to stop automatically swiping the card.

I only use my bank debit card at the local grocery and gas stations. At one time I had a transaction limit and daily limit on the debit card. I don't know if that's still in effect. For all other purchases I use American Express.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7276
  • Country: ca
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2020, 04:41:21 pm »
Worse, cash machines scan the mag stripe, not the chip. You can try this by erasing the mag stripe with a neodimium magnet. It will still work with the chip and contactless too, but won't work in a cash machine. Or a card skimmer.
What is a cash machine? An ATM? The behaviour will depend on the bank's policies. Some will not dispense cash unless the card has chip (contact , not contactless one) and PIN. It is entirely up to the card issuing bank. Do not blame the overall payments cards, blame your bank. And banks make decisions based on risk/customer convenience. No bank would want to have much negative feedback that their services are hard to use, so they make compromises.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7276
  • Country: ca
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2020, 04:44:24 pm »
. At one time I had a transaction limit and daily limit on the debit card. I don't know if that's still in effect.
You better keep the limits. Debit account is your live money, having a limit may save you some grief if bad things happen. You should be able to adjust the limits if you want to by calling the bank.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Simon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 18118
  • Country: gb
  • Did that just blow up? No? might work after all !!
    • Simon's Electronics
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2020, 04:46:10 pm »
Yes, I had my card done 3 times and got a credit card so that I would not be out of pocket in the short term.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7276
  • Country: ca
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2020, 04:57:36 pm »
Yes, I had my card done 3 times and got a credit card so that I would not be out of pocket in the short term.
This makes sense, especially if you choose a card that gives rewards or cashback, but you have to be diligent in paying off the balance every month. I for one have a cashback credit card that by end of year accumulates cashback amount sufficient to cover my Christmas shopping/gifts, so i sort of do my Christmas shopping for free.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Syntax Error

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 584
  • Country: gb
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 04:58:51 pm »
In the UK a Cash Machine is a generic term for an ATM.

Another issue with cards is geo-fencing. Or rather the lack of it. Surley it would not kill the IT guys at your card processor to issue cards that can only be used in a given territory? Or at least, a transaction would not be authorized out of bounds?  But then this is rather like asking Microsoft why they never made Windows secure by default |O
 
The following users thanked this post: Dataforensics, GlennSprigg

Offline SilverSolder

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6126
  • Country: 00
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2020, 05:03:05 pm »

[...] Use a credit card, just always pay it off the same day you put money on it so you never get hit with interest. [...]


You usually don't have to pay until the next statement - all interest free.  You only get hit with interest after the statement date.
 
The following users thanked this post: GlennSprigg

Offline SilverSolder

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6126
  • Country: 00
Re: "FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2020, 05:06:53 pm »
[...]
And the banks didn't give a crap about card security anyway.

[...]

I once had a situation where someone had used my credit card details to make a large on-line purchase.  I phoned the bank, and they refunded it pretty much instantaneously.  Later on, I phoned the merchant to try to figure out how my card details were used.  He then told me that the bank had also reimbursed him!  -  so...  we have 3 winners...  me, the merchant, and the thief.   Who lost?   Probably not the bank, since all their money is printed anyway!  :D
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf