General > General Technical Chat

"FU^%ING" Credit-Cards!!!

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pardo-bsso:
Ha so much for security.

I can't find it at the moment but Ross Anderson had a lengthy dissertation on ways to attack the pin+chip. This is a small talk at Computerphile:

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For something I deem risky (like buying online on shops that nobody knows) I use mostly what here is called a 'refill-able' credit card.

Meanwhile in this part of the world the banks stopped all international transactions (because a lot of reasons) and I find out when one of our many hosting providers  called asking why we didn't pay on time (it was on automatic billing).

And to add more fun Wirecard vanishes with part of our funds.

(sorry for the derail)

bd139:
All the redneck shops seem to accept PayPal these days so I go down that route. Their buyer dispute system is pretty good. I just got £45 back out of digital river and Lenovo who are significantly bigger fish, for sending me a duff laptop battery out just by opening a dispute.

Simon:
Yea, unless the big boys get way better deals on credit cards than they get with paypal as big boys papal is cheaper than mainstrea crudit card handlers although stripe are even cheaper than paypal.

Bassman59:

--- Quote from: cliffyk on June 27, 2020, 02:14:07 am ---My wife checks our card transactions EACH Morning via the bank's online portal. Just last month I got gas at a local (Saint Augustine, FL) Sunoco station and within 2 hours there was a $499 charge made at a Sunoco in Philadelphia. How this was done is unknown, but we had to get new cards but did not lose a penny--Sunoco did not seem especially concerned about this and pretty much blew us off, last time I get gas from them.
--- End quote ---

All of the banks, even my local credit union, offer text message notifications for any transaction on your accounts. So as soon as a credit card charge is made, I get a text indicating such. Also bank apps can notify you of transactions. It's really great -- now you can see, in real time, what is being charged to an account, and you can call the bank and get them to deal with it before they notify you of possible fraud.


--- Quote ---Bottom line, if it's your debit card that's been hacked you're screwed...

--- End quote ---

This is the truth. Imagine the scenario where the bad guy gets your debit number and clears out your checking account right before the mortgage payment hits. Sure, eventually the bank will make you whole, but at the cost of dealing with bounced-check/insufficient-funds fees.

ALWAYS use a credit card at point of sale. NEVER a debit card.

Rick Law:

--- Quote from: cliffyk on June 27, 2020, 02:14:07 am ---In the US, a credit card holder can only be held liable for a maximum of $50 in fraudulent charges, per the 1974 Fair Credit Billing Act ($0 if you have reported the card compromised prior to the unauthorized charges. In practice, most card issuers do not hold the cardholder liable for any fraudulent use, as the most they would get would be $50 and a pissed off customer.
...
...
Prior to the FCBA, and because credit card transactions are a loan, courts had held that under the 1968 Truth in Lending Act it was the card issuer's responsibility to prevent fraudulent use.  The FCBA was technically an amendment to the TILA, which was part of the 1968 Consumer Credit Protection Act (a reaction to the direction the lending industry headed in the 60s. 

There are only modest protections for fraudulent debit card use, just $50 for 2 days after the first use, $500 for 2 to 60 days hence (and good luck on actually getting that). Once 60 days have passed since you received your statement your money is gone.

Bottom line, if it's your debit card that's been hacked you're screwed...

--- End quote ---

These are critical differences between Credit Card vs Debit Card that many are not aware of.  When my teenage kid was old enough to get a "student account" complete with Debit Card plus Credit Card, even the bank staff doing the paper work didn't know that difference in liability protection.  I had to explain to my kid this very point that Federal Law limits your liability whereas Debit Card has far fewer protection mandated by law.  Relying on protections "Mandated by Law" sounds more comforting than relying on protection driven merely by "good will of the bank".

Convenience is a purchase paid for with risk.

I use cash whenever I can, and checks (cheques) if I can't use cash; credit card payment as my last resort, and debit card is a never.

Funny thing in the USA, Federal Laws also prevents retailer from charging more for use of Credit Card (probably a trade off for making them limit user liability to $50) -- but, no law against giving a "cash discount."  You can see the result in most car refilling stations, the price per gallon they show on the pump has both "price" and a lower "cash price" displayed side by side.  Oh, typically, gas station's own branded credit card get the cash price but other brands (like Bank X visa card or master charge credit card) don't.

I saved far more money from cash discounts over the credit card's "x% money back".

Here is an article on how Debit Card differs from Credit Card.
Forbes Magazine October 2016 "What I Learned When My Husband's Debit Card Was Stolen":
https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2016/10/30/what-i-learned-when-my-husbands-debit-card-was-stolen

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