General > General Technical Chat
Full-self-driving needs external infrastructure
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Psi:
AI FSD is never going to be the same as a human driver.
It will always be "fundamentally different" and this is just something the industry and the public will have to accept if it's ever allowed to drive unsupervised. 

The types of situations were human drivers die on the roads wont be the same as the types of situations where people die while being driven by unsupervised AI FSD cars.  The AI will be able to do some pretty quick maneuvers to save you from an accident that a human wouldn't have the reflexes or awareness of.  But the AI will crash in some situations where a human would never have done so. 

If there's one thing you can guarantee it's that those two approaches to controlling a car on the road (human vs FSD) are very different and both have vastly different strengths and weaknesses. And that is ok, and to be expected.

Regarding external infrastructure to aid FSD.  I suspect this will come in the form of more/better signage to instruct AI FSD of anything it needs to be aware of, rather than an online database.
Signage is better because it gives a solid location to reference the meaning of the sign from.
Marco:
I think what we could use are entirely new towns, just to show what is possible.

Make a new town and pick a level 3 traffic follower, force all residents to only use that for motorized transport and engineer the town around it. Not only is the town designed to accommodate the automation, the automation doesn't have to accommodate human drivers most of the time. Human driving would only be for exceptions, requiring either an emergency or a permit. Visitors will need to park outside the town and then take an automated taxi.

Inside town limits, the level 3 car can then become personal rapid transit.
TomKatt:

--- Quote from: Marco on March 07, 2023, 12:39:40 pm ---I think what we could use are entirely new towns, just to show what is possible.

--- End quote ---
Sounds like a resort more than a town...  Like Disney's EPCOT Future World...
james_s:

--- Quote from: Marco on March 07, 2023, 12:39:40 pm ---I think what we could use are entirely new towns, just to show what is possible.

Make a new town and pick a level 3 traffic follower, force all residents to only use that for motorized transport and engineer the town around it. Not only is the town designed to accommodate the automation, the automation doesn't have to accommodate human drivers most of the time. Human driving would only be for exceptions, requiring either an emergency or a permit. Visitors will need to park outside the town and then take an automated taxi.

Inside town limits, the level 3 car can then become personal rapid transit.

--- End quote ---

The fundamental flaw here is expecting everyone to live, work and operate within that town. In the real world most people can't move every time they get a new job, and they have friends and family in other towns. I don't know anyone that doesn't regularly drive to other towns/cities than the one in which they live. That doesn't stop local politicians from fantasizing about having a "walking city" and planning their development around it. The result is terrible congestion with people driving around in circles looking for a place to park.
james_s:

--- Quote from: tom66 on March 06, 2023, 11:09:48 pm ---I think your friend misunderstands just how cautious SDC's are, if anything they are too cautious compared to human drivers.  Tesla's for instance phantom brake sometimes when they perceive pedestrians on the road regardless of whether they are really there - the NN ends up being overly sensitive to these objects because it's hyper-trained on them. The Waymo car will pretty much not move if there is a pedestrian standing near to it.  I could actually foresee very effective protests against SDC's by say taxi drivers now out of a job, you merely need to get close to one to interfere with its operation and it will shut right down.  There have been some experiments with fake stop signs on billboards to interfere with SDC's, which will need some interesting workarounds.  I actually think we will get to the point where we have remote human drivers to 'unstick' vehicles that get stuck, but the number of these operators will be many fewer than cars on the road so it will still work out as a net win from a labour savings perspective. And that's really what SDC's are about from a commercial perspective, Waymo et al. don't really care that much about safety, other than not wanting to be embroiled in lawsuits, they want to run taxis where you don't need to employ people to run them.


--- End quote ---

I think he has a better understanding of them than you. They may be cautious but that hasn't stopped multiple Teslas from slamming into the back of parked fire engines and other emergency vehicles at high speed. There have been a few that have slammed into freeway dividers and walls at high speed. It is extremely arrogant to think that these can be designed so that this sort of thing will never happen. It is just luck that none of the things they have hit at high speed have been a cluster of pedestrians or a bus full of kids. It will happen eventually.

Personally I don't even understand why anyone would want a self driving car. The whole point of having a car is you get to drive it. If I can't drive a car I'll just take the bus.
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