General > General Technical Chat

Full-self-driving needs external infrastructure

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coppice:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on March 08, 2023, 09:55:59 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on March 07, 2023, 06:50:46 pm ---I *hate* automatic transmissions, I think manual transmission proficiency should be required to get a driver's license, then if you really want an automatic you can get one.
--- End quote ---

I have never driven a manual car in my life, sems like an absolute waste of effort. Manual cars are pretty rare here now I think.

I just checked, and sure enough:
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/by-the-numbers-the-decline-of-the-manual-transmission



--- End quote ---
Even in the UK, where a huge number of people are addicted to manual transmissions, especially in small cars, automatics are now slightly outselling manuals. Many luxury cars are not even offered in a manual version, although that is not such a big change. Even in the 80s luxury cars sold mostly as automatics. The big change is in small cars.

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: nctnico on March 08, 2023, 12:09:34 pm ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on March 08, 2023, 07:16:23 am ---For self driving cars to succeed in the market they must be able to operate within existing infrastructure.

--- End quote ---
I disagree. That statement is similar to saying that BEVs should run on gasoline. Self driving cars will need specific infrastructure and that just won't be rolled out at a large scale any time soon.

--- End quote ---

That's why I said that, I don't see any such rollout happening. And then you need to built this stuff into the cars and have universal agreement.
And then who's going to pay? What percentage of the public actually car about self driving cars? And those that do, how many of those are going to be willing to pay for such infrastructure through their tax dollars?
If you leave it up to the car companies to pay for it then you'll just end up with different incompatible systems.

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: coppice on March 08, 2023, 09:07:09 pm ---Even in the UK, where a huge number of people are addicted to manual transmissions, especially in small cars, automatics are now slightly outselling manuals. Many luxury cars are not even offered in a manual version, although that is not such a big change. Even in the 80s luxury cars sold mostly as automatics. The big change is in small cars.
--- End quote ---

Yes. Pretty much the only cars with manual here are the ultra-cheap tiny cars where saving $1-2k in cost is a big percentage of the ticket price.
Maybe work vehicles, but that's pretty much it.

EEVblog:

--- Quote from: james_s on March 08, 2023, 05:57:00 pm ---What effort? It's like walking, once you know how to do it you don't even think about the mechanical process, it's effortless. It's only when you go and drive an automatic car that it feels so incredibly boring and soul-less, you have less control, you have less engine braking, it feels slushy and mushy, less power, lower fuel economy, with an automatic you're not really driving so much as just aiming. I'm also a big fan of the mechanical simplicity of a manual gearbox. It's much smaller, lighter, simpler, there are no cooling lines or heat exchanger, no clutch packs or valve body, no electronics, it can go hundreds of thousands of miles without so much as a fluid change. When you do have to remove it for something such as to replace the clutch, it's so much easier to handle than a big bulky heavy slushbox.

But like I said, vast numbers of people are in your position and have never driven a manual in their life, they don't know what they're missing.

--- End quote ---

You are projecting your desires onto others, that doesn't work.
Some (most?) people just want to get from A-B
And who says I can't enjoy driving an automatic as much or even more than you enjoy driving your manual. Just because you like having one hand on the stick and manually controlling it, others might like other aspects of driving like hanging one arm out the window hand surfing just relaxing cruising along regardless of the conditions. I LOVE driving my EV, it's smooth, it's quiet, and I don't have to constantly dick around with a stick in traffic. Do you really enjoy your manual stick in heavy traffic, really? Why?

tom66:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on March 08, 2023, 10:17:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on March 08, 2023, 09:07:09 pm ---Even in the UK, where a huge number of people are addicted to manual transmissions, especially in small cars, automatics are now slightly outselling manuals. Many luxury cars are not even offered in a manual version, although that is not such a big change. Even in the 80s luxury cars sold mostly as automatics. The big change is in small cars.
--- End quote ---

Yes. Pretty much the only cars with manual here are the ultra-cheap tiny cars where saving $1-2k in cost is a big percentage of the ticket price.
Maybe work vehicles, but that's pretty much it.

--- End quote ---

Even then many of these have at least automated manual transmissions as an option.  For instance, even Smart cars now have dual clutch automatic transmissions though you can still get a manual if you ask.

Besides, on my automatic car there exists a manual mode and it behaves much like a manual car. It will even let you hit an electronically limited red line and won't shift up unless you sit at that red line for more than 10 seconds or so (probably just component protection at that point!)  About the only thing it won't let you do is destroy your engine/gearbox by shifting into the wrong gear, but I'm not sure anyone wanted that feature to stay :).

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