Funny Company Names....

[TimFox]

So long as we are discussing multi-lingual environments:
I just finished J Sancton's "Madhouse at the End of the Earth" (Crown, 2021), the first English-language book about the Belgica expedition to Antartica (1897-1899) under the command of the Belgian commandant Adrien de Gerlache with Belgian backing and a polyglot crew.  The lingua franca aboard ship became a "mixture of French, Dutch, Norwegian, German, Polish, English, Romanian, and Latin" (p 5).  Among the ship's company were F Cook and R Amundsen, who became infamous and famous explorers on their own expeditions.

[McBryce]

I worked with a woman from the states with the same sir name. We nicknamed her "Bunny Stick" which she thought was cool.

McBryce.

[harerod]

McBryce, that comes as a bit of a surprise, since that name stems from one tiny village. Half a century ago its people had all but two family names. I have heard "rabbit/bunny stick" more often than I care for. Even if there are several acceptable translations for German "Hase" into English, none matches the noble "hare". As for the "Stab" - well, I chose "rod" for aesthetic reasons.

[harerod]

TimFox, one would assume that this was a pidgin language. Those are often problematic, because of the simplified grammar. I wonder how that would work for scientists, where precision is paramount.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin
From my experiences with Japanese who don't speak any western language: It is really easy to do trade, exchange basic ideas, even find each other sympatico. However it is quite impossible to exchange more complex concepts. I was/am my own Guinea pig regarding language development in 45+year olds, since my four trips where spread over three years. During my last trip one acquaintance commented on my progress: "I remember meeting you for the first time, you could barely speak. Now we sit here and do quite normal smalltalk." Can't wait to get back and apply the work which I did during the pandemic. No visa in sight, though.

[TimFox]

I think the Latin component of the pidgin was due to the scientists onboard, especially the zoologists.

[harerod]

Ah, how could I have missed Latin. At that time most scientists would have been quite fluent in Latin, comprehension and production. So, stick with Latin grammar, then define and use any term you need. Should work like a charm.

In my peak times (e.g. close to failing Latin classes) I visited a lecture on sub-atomic particles, held in Latin. I was surprised how much I seemed to understand. That was more due to prior background, less than my prowess in Latin. The Latin-ace lady who had dragged me to that lecture admitted that she didn't get a thing. That was over thirty years ago, I wonder of stuff like that still happens at universities today.

[TimFox]

    Gaudeamus igitur,
    Iuvenes dum sumus,
    Gaudeamus igitur,
    Iuvenes dum sumus,
    Post iucundam iuventutem,
    Post molestam senectutem,
    Nos habebit humus,
    Nos habebit humus.

[harerod]

You HAD to pick that one, right? That reminds me of Latin classes in France, mid 1980s. That song being sung by French students. "Gohdeamüüs ishitüür..."  Approximate IPA transcription: /ɡodɛam̩ys iʒityʁ/...


The issue with dead languages is that modern "speakers" tend to use their native accent for speaking. I learned Latin with a German accent, the biggest discussions being about pronunciation of 'e' (/eː/) and 'c' (/k/). -> /ɡaʊdeːamʊs ɪɡɪtuːr/

Nunc est bibendum.

[TimFox]

The late Peter Ustinov told an anecdote about sitting in a bar in Athens when a British subject turned to him, complaining "This bartender doesn't understand a word of ancient Greek!"

[Ed.Kloonk]

You HAD to pick that one, right? That reminds me of Latin classes in France, mid 1980s. That song being sung by French students. "Gohdeamüüs ishitüür..."  Approximate IPA transcription: /ɡodɛam̩ys iʒityʁ/...


The issue with dead languages is that modern "speakers" tend to use their native accent for speaking. I learned Latin with a German accent, the biggest discussions being about pronunciation of 'e' (/eː/) and 'c' (/k/). -> /ɡaʊdeːamʊs ɪɡɪtuːr/

Nunc est bibendum.

Bigus Dickus.

[harerod]

That story is a classic. If one looks at language change in modern languages, it comes as no big surprise. However, for an archeologist in whose mind the ancient history is alive and predominant, this experience must be outright frustrating.

Not too long ago I had an exchange with an Hebrew native speaker. This language is a rare example of a resurrected language. I was told that literate modern native speakers have not much trouble reading the old texts. Quite remarkable.


Folks - I keep asking myself if we better open up a language/linguistics/phonetics thread? The question is - how would we attract customersreaders?

[Cerebus]

Not too long ago I had an exchange with an Hebrew native speaker. This language is a rare example of a resurrected language. I was told that literate modern native speakers have not much trouble reading the old texts. Quite remarkable.

Not a surprise really. I remember my (male) jewish school pals all being sent off to shule every Saturday to learn ancient Hebrew so that they could read the Torah out loud on the occasion of their Bar Mitzvah. That has been going on throughout Jewish history and has kept the language alive between the diaspora and the formation of modern Israel. These were folk from very Liberal jewish households (Judaism has roughly split into Orthodox, Reform and Liberal from most to least observant in that order) so even in households that weren't very far removed from the level of religious tokenism of Christians attending church on "high days and holidays" they still kept up the tradition of leaning Hebrew.

In the same vein, Muslims are quite comfortable with reading 6th century Arabic and I myself can comfortably read early 17th century English because when I were a lad religious education was compulsory at school and it was the King James version of the bible that was foist on us.

[TimFox]

Another anecdote, this time about "Early Modern English", i.e., Shakespeare and the King James translation.
A suburban high school English teacher was bragging to an academic that he was teaching his students Shakespeare "in Old English".
The academic was surprised, since that would take a philologist at the level of the late J R R Tolkien to pull off.

[GlennSprigg]

I was always taught that an U with an Umlaut was to be prounced somewhere in-between "EW" and "OO"; so somewhere between
FOOKER and FEWKER in English, but not as a "y" in English (german EI sound)

Was I led astray by poor teaching?

I wasn't thinking of the long "y", but a short one like in "mystery" or "cyst". But I realize now that this does not get the right "ü" sound.  The English pronouciation of that short "y" is much closer to a short "i" like in "picture" or "minion" than what we want for the "ü".

I guess there is a reason the the "ü" and "ö" are difficult for English speakers; there is no directly equivalent sound in English. "EW" or "OO" don't cut it either, I'm afraid. 

There are plenty of sites with pronounciation examples these days, e.g. here: https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/dr%C3%BCcken. But if one is not used to the sound, it might be difficult to pick up the difference even from listening? (Just like it is difficult for Germans to get the English "W" or "TH" sounds initially...)

Edit: To offer another take on the "ü" sound: It is somewhere halfway between "eee" and "ooo" (as pronounced in English). Raise your tongue towards the roof of your mouth as when pronouncing "beetle", but round your lips as you would when pronouncing "boot". That should get you in the ballpark?

I remember some old German friends telling me that back in Germany, when trying to learn/pronounce English, (with an Aussie Accent!!),
they were told to say the letters 'MNX' (with English pronunciation), to ask for "Ham And Eggs"   

[McBryce]

I remember some old German friends telling me that back in Germany, when trying to learn/pronounce English, (with an Aussie Accent!!),
they were told to say the letters 'MNX' (with English pronunciation), to ask for "Ham And Eggs"   

Were they "Mirror Eggs"? 

McBryce.

[GlennSprigg]

I remember some old German friends telling me that back in Germany, when trying to learn/pronounce English, (with an Aussie Accent!!),
they were told to say the letters 'MNX' (with English pronunciation), to ask for "Ham And Eggs"   

Were they "Mirror Eggs"? 

McBryce.

I've never heard of that term!!, so I looked it up...   
https://forum.english.best/t/what-are-mirror-eggs/144709