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| "Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them) |
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| tom66:
Salt supply doesn't seem to be an issue for gritting the roads. The sea is full of it, anyway. |
| Miyuki:
--- Quote from: dzseki on August 26, 2022, 12:12:20 pm --- --- Quote from: JohanH on August 26, 2022, 06:10:12 am --- --- Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 25, 2022, 10:28:47 pm --- There's thermal storage that's very cost effective for a few days. Some larger installations might be able to push it to a few weeks before insulation costs render it impractical. --- End quote --- There is a Finnish concept of storing heat in sand that keeps the heat for months. Currently the first product has been installed with 8 MWh capacity. It's cheap and seems to work. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61996520 --- End quote --- We have been talking about this with the colleagues (engineers and physicists) the other day. Sand has heat capacity about 1/5 of water’s, but the temperature of the sand here is 500°C, so why not just use (salted) water then? Also heating up to 500°C screams for resistive heating which is „inefficient”. Using water you can heat up to eg. 60°C (in summer time maybe even more) with a heat pump, and only use resistive heating in the last portion until close to boiling. BTW, here in Hungary residential users are getting 1730m^3 gas (/ year) at a very attractive price: 0.25EUR/m^3, they say this is the grand average of residential usage. Above that consumers have to pay market(like) prices. For fun I’ve calculated that the amount of heat attained by burning 1730m^3 gas can be stored in about 180 tons of water with dT of 80°C, 180 tons of water can be stored in a cube with edge length of 5.65m which isn’t sound that insane IMO. --- End quote --- The common city heat distributing network works with relatively high temperatures of 110 – 150°C That 60°C can be on a return line You need that high temperature because old buildings are commonly designed with 75/55 radiators for heating And need heat domestic hot water above 60°C to keep it from legionella And of course, heat exchangers need some temperature gradient to work |
| themadhippy:
Talk all you like about building more nuclear, filling the sahara with solar or other alternatives ,it aint gonna change anything unless its funded out the publics purse,and the energy sold to the consumers instead of via " the markets". Heres an of the wall idea for the uk goverbent ,impose a substantial export tariff on energy, either sell it at cost with an acceptable profit to the uk market,or sell it on the international markets and pay 150% export duty |
| tom66:
One factor is wind and solar providers are making bank right now, at £1000/MWh for instance which is sometimes the spot price, they are basically printing money. Should we tax those guys, to provide more support for businesses and low incomes? |
| AndyBeez:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 26, 2022, 02:47:01 pm ---One factor is wind and solar providers are making bank right now, at £1000/MWh for instance which is sometimes the spot price, they are basically printing money. Should we tax those guys, to provide more support for businesses and low incomes? --- End quote --- @tom66, but didn't you already know that before sanctions, Europe purchased most of it's wind, rain and sunshine from Russia - along with all of it's geothermal and tidal energy? You're right, they are profiteering. Why is MY British electricity price going up when I am on a 100% green/zero carbon energy tariff? Answer, "it's the market." BS. |
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