General > General Technical Chat

"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)

<< < (26/139) > >>

jonpaul:
So called climate crisis caused by decades of UK, Germany, EU and US politique against nuclear, oli, frackin, pipelines, refinerys.

That madness opened the door to Putin's stranglehold on Western énergie supply.

The instant solution.... go off grid, get your own solar, backup generator, flee the extreme  left controlled cities and states.

With Putin's energy war, our governments are surrendering.


j

PS notice that the most extreme climate nuts like AOL or John Kerry,  seem to have no problem with private jets, limousines,....

Enjoy,

Jon

tautech:

--- Quote from: jonpaul on August 27, 2022, 10:46:55 am ---With Putin's energy war, our governments are surrendering.

--- End quote ---
:-DD
They did that back in February !

tszaboo:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 26, 2022, 11:12:22 pm ---Is a home battery and solar system worthwhile now?

--- End quote ---
To give you a data point: I spent 5KEUR on my solar system, got back about 800EUR tax, with about 700EUR/year expected revenue. This would mean a flat ROI of 6 years.
The price of electricity went up by 80% in my case, so the system would generate about 1250 EUR/year, and have a ROI of 3 year 6 months.
Also, redelivery rate went from something 9 cents/kWh to 30 cents. I regret not getting the biggest system that would fit on my roof now, because even just selling electricity at those prices, and using nothing has a ROI of ~5 years insted of 15.
There is still ~9 cents/kWh difference between sold and bought energy, so I'm not sure if a battery system would be worth it. Since we have net metering here, it's not. Let's say it's not.
Marco Reps had this 5kWh LiFEPo battery in his last video for 2000 EUR, which I noted down to be great price/performance at the time. And he is good, watch his videos. That cycled 1000 times would be only worth 450 EUR of difference in electricity price. Or ROI with 4400 cycles, which is questionable, and too long.

tom66:
Here, the difference between buy and sell is about 50%. 

A static price of 7.5p/kWh using the 'SEG' tariff, well below the import cost, or a variable price of between 20-50p/kWh using 'Agile Outgoing'.  Some older systems get very good feed-in tariff rates but those aren't available any more.

So there is some benefit if you can arbitrage on the variable pricing too, but yes the lifespan of the battery must be accounted for as this will essentially add to the per kWh.  A good LiFePO4 pack should do 2000 cycles to 80% capacity, but that assumes 100% DoD, which would only apply in winter.  In summer the battery might only vary by 30-40% DoD.

What's clear to me is that while there isn't a guarantee that these systems will pay off their cost I would say it is a greater than 80% probability.  The near-term forecast for gas is not great.  The earliest the lost gas from Russia might be replaced by is 2026, and still then that is somewhat optimistic.  There is some benefit in getting old nuke plants going and maybe even using coal temporarily, but if the plants are mothballed it could take years to come online.

I really do think Germany and the EU have dropped the ball here.  I would love to see what the planning for lost Russian gas was, because it looked like it was "not planned"!

I have wondered how worthwhile building a battery bank is, versus buying one.  A 9.5kWh system without solar is £6k incl VAT.  I added up the cost of batteries and it's close to £3k so maybe cheaper but with no warranty and all the system design/test/build done by myself, it may come close to that cost.  Also if it's grid tied then there are compliance issues with the DNO (network operator).

edit: typo

nctnico:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 27, 2022, 12:08:58 pm ---I really do think Germany and the EU have dropped the ball here.  I would love to see what the planning for lost Russian gas was, because it looked like it was "not planned"!

--- End quote ---

It is mostly Germany that is in a pickle. For some reason they find that using natural gas is the best solution to reduce CO2 emissions  :-//  Maybe they got influenced by a lobby originating from Russia or so. And it is not like they where not warned; the US protested heavily against the second pipeline including putting sanctions into place. Then again, who took anything coming from the Trump administration serious?


--- Quote ---I have wondered how worthwhile building a battery bank is, worth buying one.  A 9.5kWh system without solar is £6k incl VAT.

--- End quote ---
I strongly recommend against that. Making a good, reliable battery pack takes a lot of effort. I have been involved with that myself in the startup phase of a battery manufacturer. Nowadays they have a large team of engineers. Battery manufacturers typically test & match cells before putting them into a battery. Also the BMS needs to have all kinds of safety features to protect the cells. Last but not least, the battery pack is also certified for safety. If your home-brew battery pack catches fire, the insurance will not cover the damages. Also think about what happens if you sell the house. A home-brew battery will be frowned upon and a smart buyer won't accept it. All in all it is not worth the trouble.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod