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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)

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tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 27, 2022, 02:24:51 pm ---Steel enclosure with flammable content = big bomb  Remember that a battery doesn't need oxigen to release it's energy. Grid storage batteries are specifically designed to spit the flames out of the top instead of to the sides.

--- End quote ---

Mmm...


And then you see people build these...


A single cell that's at end of life suddenly decides to go short.  No cell level fusing, no intumescent coating, no cooling or heating, and all cells are different.   It doesn't take much to guess what's going to happen with these packs.

It is a recipe for disaster.  Containing a fire like that is near impossible.  Only solution is to get the fire brigade in and cool it down.  So not so much of a problem if it is far away from anything valuable, but NO WAY would it go anywhere on or near my home.

Marco:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 27, 2022, 02:24:51 pm ---Steel enclosure with flammable content = big bomb

--- End quote ---
You don't make it tight or hermetic.

--- Quote ---Grid storage batteries are specifically designed to spit the flames out of the top
--- End quote ---
It doesn't take rocket science to accomplish that. Put on a wooden lid, that's where the flames will go too with a DIY steel enclosure. Then you can fill it with water from a distance.

As I said, with a large property it's not a problem, just put it away from anything flammable.

Wallace Gasiewicz:
So your battery shack catches fire. The batteries are destroyed and the contents are spilled. How much for the toxic waste cleanup?
Are you legally responsible for the pollution, or will John Kerry help you out?

Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:07:27 am ---What the point from heat pumps in current situation when they are powered by electricity?

--- End quote ---

If you say "powered by X", how am I supposed to interpret this? I see no other way than: "all of the output power comes from X", or maybe "most of the output power comes from X". If this is what you mean, then sorry, you are completely wrong.

Heatpumps are not "powered by electricity", this is a total misunderstanding of what heatpumps do. They NEED some electricity, but that's a different thing.

Look at the energy flow. Energy output produced by a heatpump is originally solar energy, seasonally stored in the heat capacity of the planet (soil + atmosphere). So heatpump-powered house is heated BY SOLAR. Not "by electricity".

Now sure, PART of that output energy is from electricity, no way around that. But the key is, this part is small, especially in Middle European conditions.

So by installing a heatpump, you reduce your fossil fuel consumption to maybe one third, because you add a new renewable energy harvester.

Sure, somewhere you might have electricity crisis but no gas crisis. In such case, heat pump might not instantly work out. It's still the right thing to do.

But now Europe is facing shortage of both electricity and natural gas, so heatpump will be an obvious choice, because it reduces energy consumption so significantly.

It's really fundamentally very close to EV vs. gasoline car. EV will put more burden on the grid, but in the big picture still the right thing to do because energy consumption is reduced to 1/4th.

The magic of heatpump is in two things:
1) affordable price
2) built-in seasonal storage

Compare to PV. Say you have to pay 5000€ to get a 3000-4000kWh/year PV installation. And it produces very little during the coldest 2-3 months.

A heatpump? You get one (typical air source unit) installed for maybe 1500€. It will extract the same 3000-4000kWh/year of solar energy, and even better, it can still extract it during the coldest, darkest months. Curve of production capability vs. demand is not perfect, but better than PV. Price per harvested energy is a lot better than PV.

So if you have to choose between PV and heatpumps, choose heatpumps first. PV is of course great, too.

Always look at energy first. Everything else is details.

madires:
Air-water heat pumps usually come with a large heating element as back-up in case the outside air temperature is too low. For a classic single-family home the heating element is about 10kW. Based on where you live you'll need the heating element for some days in the winter. Another thing to know is that heat pumps can be switched remotely in Germany (via a dedicated power meter) to prevent grid overloads.

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