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| "Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them) |
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| tom66:
Right: but no free energy, if you pull 1/4 the energy by heating up the inward flow, passing through rads and then back out to the district system then you haven't stolen any energy, you'll get billed correctly for 1/4 less heat. Unless something fundamental is wrong with thermodynamics! |
| NiHaoMike:
--- Quote from: Marco on August 27, 2022, 07:02:59 pm ---I assume it measures flow and exit temperature (probably input and output flow, to detect leaks). You get charged by the Joule and just measuring flow and assuming the exit temperature is near the input temperature would be a dangerous assumption to make, you would pay less for the same energy with more efficient radiators. PS. after looking it up, it does measure input and exit temperature but only input flow. Enough to determine energy extraction. --- End quote --- I would be surprised if a modern meter doesn't sanity check the return flow, as described it would be possible to cheat the system by returning some water with only a small amount of heat extracted and dumping the rest down the drain after extracting a lot more heat. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 27, 2022, 07:48:03 pm --- --- Quote from: Marco on August 27, 2022, 07:02:59 pm ---I assume it measures flow and exit temperature (probably input and output flow, to detect leaks). You get charged by the Joule and just measuring flow and assuming the exit temperature is near the input temperature would be a dangerous assumption to make, you would pay less for the same energy with more efficient radiators. PS. after looking it up, it does measure input and exit temperature but only input flow. Enough to determine energy extraction. --- End quote --- I would be surprised if a modern meter doesn't sanity check the return flow, as described it would be possible to cheat the system by returning some water with only a small amount of heat extracted and dumping the rest down the drain after extracting a lot more heat. --- End quote --- Nope. Only the inward flow is measured. But these systems are divided into smaller sections that serve a limited number of homes. Excessive water leaks are detected and the system shuts down for the section with a leak. |
| Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 27, 2022, 05:00:55 pm ---I guess you are talking about air to air heatpumps. Air to water is closer to 5-6000 EUR, and your home heating system must be compatible with low temperature radiators. Which mine is not. --- End quote --- Again: if air-to-water does not work for you, get air-to-air units. They maintain maximum possible COP without the compromise of having to produce too high output temperature, and can be retrofitted to nearly any house. Price should be no problem, good units start from 500-600 EUR and installation is a two-hour job, price of install is of course defined by the mafia and varies from 100EUR to maybe 1000EUR depending on where you live. It is not a total and complete solution, but it isn't supposed to be - just like you install PV regardless of it being unable to supply all your electricity. Air to air heatpump is the cheapest and simplest way (per kWh produced) to tap into our unlimited renewable thermal energy resource (the planet itself). |
| Alti:
--- Quote from: madires on August 27, 2022, 05:00:17 pm ---Another thing to know is that heat pumps can be switched remotely in Germany (via a dedicated power meter) to prevent grid overloads. --- End quote --- Could you provide some reference? What is the name of such service? I did hear about off-peak resistive heating based on tariffs where the ON/OFF was driven by distribution company (based on time or remotely). However, a user could always override that, just paying higher tariff price. While your post suggests this is another application - stabilization of the grid where in some situations users are prevented from heating their houses. |
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