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| "Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them) |
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| Marco:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 27, 2022, 05:00:55 pm ---I guess you are talking about air to air heatpumps. Air to water is closer to 5-6000 EUR, and your home heating system must be compatible with low temperature radiators. Which mine is not. --- End quote --- I'm considering getting an air to water system with 3 FCUs for the living room and bed rooms, when the normal radiators can't put enough heat in the air, turn on the FCUs. In summer, decouple the radiator circuit and use the FCUs for cooling. Maybe add some booster fans in the normal radiators too. Just need to find a distributor which doesn't try to sell FCUs for over two times the cost in Italy. Assuming civil society is still functional next year of course. |
| nctnico:
If you still have radiators, consider swapping these for underfloor heating. It is a lot of work but underfloor heating is soooo much nicer compared to radiators that you forget about that the instant you feel the improved comfort of underfloor heating. |
| Alti:
--- Quote from: madires on August 28, 2022, 01:08:52 pm ---The term for this is 'EVU-Sperre' --- End quote --- Energieversorgungsunternehmen. What you describe is off-peak tariff. Comes in different flavors. Depending on specific country it can have local names like Economy 7(UK) or G12(PL). This is 60+ years old idea [1] so I am trying to understand the EVU-Sperre in the context of the above generic concept where price of the commodity varies in time and you decide whether you buy or not. I did search for EVU-Sperre and googletranslated a random article about it but I have no clue why does a distributor connect single load into this meter. Seems that they can discourage or even prevent the pump (and only pump) to turn on, even when it is cold in the house. Mind conceptually this is no different than setting two tariffs, one for €0.2/kWh and the other one for €2000/kWh so that no one sane is going to turn the pump on then, no matter how cold it is. This EVU-Sperre seems irrational at first glance, it over-complicates a simple and old idea. In case people need more heat (super cold winter, blackout, whatever), they are going to be forced to turn the resistive heating COP=1 on (because it costs €0.3/kWh whole day). Additionally you have two sets of wirings in the house with different price per kWh. One that is 0.2€ (for 18h/day) and the other one that is €0.3 (24h/day). :palm: Where is the trick? Seems like a setback of 60yo idea. [1] Taschenbuch für Heizung und Klimatechnik |
| madires:
--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 28, 2022, 01:48:45 pm ---Wouldn't it make more sense to have all electricity switch between the discounted and full rate with smart switches to disable devices at peak time? In that case, the heat pump could be required to have a smart switch and additional smart switches can be installed on other devices as the customer wishes. --- End quote --- That's the idea of smart meters, i.e. telling household appliances and other loads to turn on when power is less expensive. AFAIK, neither do we have the tariffs for this yet, nor a standardized remote control protocol for loads. There are a few appliances supporting some remote control protocol, but it's still very niche. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: madires on August 28, 2022, 04:06:24 pm --- --- Quote from: NiHaoMike on August 28, 2022, 01:48:45 pm ---Wouldn't it make more sense to have all electricity switch between the discounted and full rate with smart switches to disable devices at peak time? In that case, the heat pump could be required to have a smart switch and additional smart switches can be installed on other devices as the customer wishes. --- End quote --- That's the idea of smart meters, i.e. telling household appliances and other loads to turn on when power is less expensive. AFAIK, neither do we have the tariffs for this yet, nor a standardized remote control protocol for loads. There are a few appliances supporting some remote control protocol, but it's still very niche. --- End quote --- That is not true. Over here quite a low of people used to have electric water heaters (big drums with water) that where switched on during the night when electricity is cheaper and deliver hot water during the day. The remote control was done through modulating a signal on top of the 50Hz by the power company. This technology is from the 1960's or so. Nowadays it is no longer supported by most of the electricity suppliers because the use of these boilers has diminished. But nevertheless: the technology exists for a long time. AFAIK modulating a tone onto mains is or has been used for street lights as well. |
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