General > General Technical Chat
"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 28, 2022, 10:14:05 pm ---I could see EU compromising and trying to negotiate a ceasefire in Ukraine. Not a defeat for either side but implicitly acknowledging the dependence of Russian gas for the EU. Hopefully in the meantime they continue with their degasification project and remove this influence altogether, but somehow I doubt it will be all that quick.
--- End quote ---
And there was a toilet paper shortage not that long ago, artificially created, and done by mass hysteria.
The russians have a name for these people, it's UI or useful idiots.
We are prepared, the gas storage in Germany is 80% full, and it's enough for months. The only loosing method for us is to change policies. Otherwise let the Ukranians and Lockheed Martin and the others take care of the situation.
I'm not sure about the UK though. You guys seems to be perfectly capable to shooting yourself in the foot for no reason every time.
JohanH:
Meanwhile in Finland there are no gas or coal heated houses. There are about half a million heated with electricity (which is not good). Only about 130 000-150 000 oil heated houses left and they are replaced rapidly with heat pumps. According to statistics, in the first half of 2022, heat pump sales grew 105% and heat pumps are now used for 20% of all heating in the country (and increasing). Ground source heat pumps in MW size are also installed in large buildings, like apartment houses, service buildings and for district heating. Many apartment houses also install exhaust air heat pumps, which can save up to 50% of heating costs.
Last year it was calculated that in 2030, the amount of heat pumps will have doubled and will be used for 30% of heating in Finland. This number will most likely be much larger, due to the rapid increase the first half of 2022 (and if the trend continues).
madires:
--- Quote from: JohanH on August 28, 2022, 08:21:25 pm ---My heat pump has a "smart" function so it is able to monitor prices and run when it's cheapest, but I haven't used it because we have never had really affordable night tariffs here. Now if batteries were cheaper...
--- End quote ---
Another smart function is to adapt the heat pump's power usage to what the PV system on the roof generates.
langwadt:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 29, 2022, 07:08:49 am ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on August 28, 2022, 10:14:05 pm ---I could see EU compromising and trying to negotiate a ceasefire in Ukraine. Not a defeat for either side but implicitly acknowledging the dependence of Russian gas for the EU. Hopefully in the meantime they continue with their degasification project and remove this influence altogether, but somehow I doubt it will be all that quick.
--- End quote ---
And there was a toilet paper shortage not that long ago, artificially created, and done by mass hysteria.
The russians have a name for these people, it's UI or useful idiots.
We are prepared, the gas storage in Germany is 80% full, and it's enough for months. The only loosing method for us is to change policies. Otherwise let the Ukranians and Lockheed Martin and the others take care of the situation.
I'm not sure about the UK though. You guys seems to be perfectly capable to shooting yourself in the foot for no reason every time.
--- End quote ---
afaiu UK screwed themselves by only having gas storage for a few (winter) days
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: JohanH on August 29, 2022, 07:16:51 am ---Meanwhile in Finland there are no gas or coal heated houses. There are about half a million heated with electricity (which is not good). Only about 130 000-150 000 oil heated houses left and they are replaced rapidly with heat pumps. According to statistics, in the first half of 2022, heat pump sales grew 105% and heat pumps are now used for 20% of all heating in the country (and increasing). Ground source heat pumps in MW size are also installed in large buildings, like apartment houses, service buildings and for district heating. Many apartment houses also install exhaust air heat pumps, which can save up to 50% of heating costs.
Last year it was calculated that in 2030, the amount of heat pumps will have doubled and will be used for 30% of heating in Finland. This number will most likely be much larger, due to the rapid increase the first half of 2022 (and if the trend continues).
--- End quote ---
Well here they are making a policy to only be able to buy heat pumps instead of gas boilers from 2026. Which of course had an immediate political backlash from everyone, because the system is more expensive. Even though the plan is to give like 30-40% subsidy. It's impossible to deal with these sort of people, it doesn't matter that the systems have a ROI in 2-3 years now. Like for real, you can take out a 10 year renewable loan for it, get 30-40% subsidy, finance 110% of the remaining, and pay immediately less money, and yet they are complaining.
Also if you mention heat pump, no Dutch person will think about air conditioning. If I go to the website of any HVAC company, it will be a different category. I guess it's the lack of awareness which is the biggest issue. Also no subsidy for air conditioning, because... Well because it would make sense, and that's not what governments do.
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