General > General Technical Chat
"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
tautech:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 30, 2022, 10:59:10 pm ---How EVs are going to be taxed is another area of controversy. One idea is to include a tracker so they known how far you've gone and on which roads, but that's seen as a privacy issue by many. I'd support reading the odometer every year, when the car gets its MoT and applying the tax accordingly.
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Here in NZ EV's are currently getting a fee ride as another form of subsidy fantasy whereas every other vehicle must contribute to the roading networks wear and tare in currently 2 ways.
Additional fuel taxes on all petrol sales whereas all diesel vehicles contribute to the roading network by way of a Road User charge, it being calculated on GVM (gross weight) and its # of axles and/or tyre configuration.
NZ RUC's are distance based and must be pre-purchased and displayed on the windscreen.
As diesel is the primary off road fuel all off road use does not contribute to the roading network, the benefit being one diesel fuel type is used for everything without the additional cost of fuel usage administration checks.
However pleasure pursuits such as boating and offroad activities get caught with the additional petrol taxes however there is a avenue to claim the road tax component back although most don't unless they are large petrol users.
Vovk_Z:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 30, 2022, 10:33:03 pm ---It's a pragmatic statement. The problem for Ukraine is the there are Russian supporters in the country. Where did I say anything about surrendering? It just there's very little the West can do to help. Besides, there are plenty of other wars gong on around the world and no one seems to give a toss. It's just the harsh reality of the situation.
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In general I'm tired of fighting with russian propaganda, because we are in a state of a real war here (and I'm tired of pre-war internet wars). I went from russian electronic forums (since 2014-2015) to international ones (so did many ukrainians), because of two reasons: 1) I want for russians to cook in their own shit without me. 2) I'm tired of internet wars and tired of reading a russian imperial propaganda shit.
But I'll make some exclusion for you for a some short period of time.
'It's a pragmatic statement' - it is pragmatic to be biten by russia one-by-one, country-by-country? Haven't you learned a history of begining a WW2?
'there are Russian supporters in the country' - there are rusian supporters in almost any country. Ukraine just the closest one to the russia (so it has the most effect), but there are some russian suporters almost all over the Europe and all over the world - in Germany, France, UK, even in the USA. So what?? For example, Does USA have to give Alyaska 'back' to the russia? It could be pragmatic, otherwise a war may beging, or other 'inconvenience' and 'hard time'.
'It just there's very little the West can do to help.' - that is a classic russian 'We all are small people, and we can't do nothing'.
'Besides, there are plenty of other wars gong on around the world and no one seems to give a toss. It's just the harsh reality of the situation.' - it is like I'm in a russian forum when I reading you. You spell exact 100% percent of a russian statements, all of them. You forget to add about America bombed Baghdad and so on.
Someone:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 30, 2022, 10:59:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: Someone on August 30, 2022, 10:48:42 pm ---the case for electric vehicles as they can be supply responsive and provide the currently missing storage in the gird.
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If EV batteries are going to be used to balance the grid, then it's only fair the owners should be compensated for the additional wear on the battery. The meter connected to the car should work the same in both directions.
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If you jump immediately to storage = public resource then that might be true, but that's your misleading definition/requirement.
People with cars want to drive them around, but they (on average) sit idle for 95% of the time. It does not need all that time to recharge them, the charging can be done at the convenience of supply. The energy needed is stored for use later. All that grumbling about negative electricity prices during peak solar production? EVs will soak it up if that is exposed to the consumer, they dont need to return anything to the grid to store the "excess" energy as they form a fairly predictable energy sink with peaky use. The clever bit will be lining up all the commercial interests so a user can just plug in and have it automatically happen.
If EVs are going to be using some large percentage of all energy (as some say is the barrier to their uptake) then they will be presenting an even larger percentage of storage to the grid, which solves many of the energy production issues.
nctnico:
Now calculate the price per kWh you'd need to receive from the power company to cover the wear on your precious battery... EVs as grid storage is the most stupidest idea ever. It simply isn't cost effective. For starters: EV batteries aren't made for grid storage purposes.
james_s:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 30, 2022, 10:59:10 pm ---I disagree with banning ICU cars though. People will gradually transition to EVs as they get cheaper and the cost savings become more apparent.
If EV batteries are going to be used to balance the grid, then it's only fair the owners should be compensated for the additional wear on the battery. The meter connected to the car should work the same in both directions.
How EVs are going to be taxed is another area of controversy. One idea is to include a tracker so they known how far you've gone and on which roads, but that's seen as a privacy issue by many. I'd support reading the odometer every year, when the car gets its MoT and applying the tax accordingly.
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Banning ICE cars is absolutely stupid, at least it is on the insanely aggressive timeline that CA and now my state have pledged to do it. I did notice the law does allow plug-in hybrids though so I suspect we will see a large number of hybrids with a token plug-in feature tacked on that allows the battery to be topped off, and I doubt many people will use it.
Pure EVs are already extremely popular and they are growing fast. There is no need to mandate them, the free(ish) market is working as it is supposed to and people whose needs are met by an EV are choosing them when it is economically advantageous to do so. With a Tesla costing around $10 for 300 miles of range you don't even have to drive a huge number of miles for that to pay off, even at fuel prices of a few years ago. Even so, there are enough edge cases that trying to mandate pure EV is ridiculous. Tradesmen and such still need heavy duty trucks with large range. People that have horses and RVs need to be able to pull a big heavy trailer, sometimes hundreds of miles in a day. Huge numbers of people do not have these edge cases but enough do that ICE must remain a choice for the foreseeable future.
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