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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
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richard.cs:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2022, 04:07:24 pm ---No, this is just optimisation for cost, not for optimising the load on the infrastructure. There are a lot of places where the grid just can't handle the amount of renewable energy being generated. So the electricity comes for free but there is no way to get it to the outlet where you need it.

--- End quote ---
That tariff is flat price within the night period so is not a good example, but the recommended charger, the Ohme one, can optimise for minimum CO2/kWh independent of price or can optimise for minimum price (with either a fixed overnight rate like that one or a dynamic tariff with half-hourly pricing). It's default behaviour on a tariff like that with 6 hours of a cheap flat rate is to pick the lowest-CO2 hours within that 6 hour window provided the required charging doesn't need 6 hours at full power.

Optimising for price on a dynamic tariff ("agile octopus" or similar) approximates optimising for charging when the ratio of supply and demand is favourable.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: madires on August 31, 2022, 04:11:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on August 31, 2022, 02:24:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: madires on August 31, 2022, 01:19:26 pm ---Proper insulation is a prerequisite for heat pumps.

--- End quote ---

Where is this meme coming from?

These things (heatpumps, insulation) are totally orthogonal.

Quite the opposite, (e.g. ground source) heatpumps are specifically being recommended here in old, poorly insulated buildings (with maybe some historical or sentimental value); of course, because poorly insulated houses consume more heat, there is more (absolute) potential for savings.

For example, a well insulated house needing 9MWh/year of heat, heatpump with COP=3 saves 6MWh/year of energy. A poorly insulated house needing 27MWh/year of heat, heatpump with COP=3 saves 18MWh/year of energy.

--- End quote ---

Of course you can argue that with any COP/efficiency better than simply burning gas or fuel oil you'll need to buy less energy. But why stopping there if adding insulation lowers that dramatically more? So you can pay for a proper insulation or have to buy more/larger heat pumps to get the heat power needed. Without insulation you'll also need a higher flow temperature to keep your home warm (limit of typical heat pumps is about 40-45°C). The next point is that all the additional required electricity has to be generated. This will not happen over night and we don't have fusion power plants yet. It's about the whole strategy!

--- End quote ---
Yep. You have to take the physical limits into account. A natural gas pipe can bring an awfull lot of energy into a home compared to the electricity connection. You can't simply disconnect the gas and assume there is enough electricity available to heat a home. Adding insulation can not be done infinitely; at some point you will have to activiely control the moisture levels in a home as well which -for an older home- means massive construction work.

The Dutch consumer's organisation (non-profit organisation) recommends people to buy hybrid boilers which are both heatpump and gas burner. When it is really cold, the gas burner kicks in.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: richard.cs on August 31, 2022, 04:30:11 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2022, 04:07:24 pm ---No, this is just optimisation for cost, not for optimising the load on the infrastructure. There are a lot of places where the grid just can't handle the amount of renewable energy being generated. So the electricity comes for free but there is no way to get it to the outlet where you need it.

--- End quote ---
That tariff is flat price within the night period so is not a good example, but the recommended charger, the Ohme one, can optimise for minimum CO2/kWh independent of price or can optimise for minimum price (with either a fixed overnight rate like that one or a dynamic tariff with half-hourly pricing). It's default behaviour on a tariff like that with 6 hours of a cheap flat rate is to pick the lowest-CO2 hours within that 6 hour window provided the required charging doesn't need 6 hours at full power.

Optimising for price on a dynamic tariff ("agile octopus" or similar) approximates optimising for charging when the ratio of supply and demand is favourable.

--- End quote ---
But it still doesn't help with preventing a grid or generating capacity overload which is what started the sub-thread. At some point people will want to have their EV charged enough to get to work or whatever destination they need to be at.
james_s:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2022, 04:07:24 pm ---That is insane! The additional costs to build a home with an A rating will be earned back quickly. I mean, how much does it cost extra to make the insulation a few cm thicker and install a ventilation system? My home is nearly 30 years old and it has an A rating (partly due to being on district heating though).

--- End quote ---

Quite a lot more at current lumber prices, at least over here. Thicker insulation in the walls means thicker walls. Thicker walls means larger wall studs, larger studs means considerably higher lumber cost and you have to make the whole house larger in order to get the same interior space. People are also notoriously bad at long term thinking, they will balk at spending extra money up front even if it is cheaper over a period of a few years.
themadhippy:

--- Quote --- The additional costs to build a home with an A rating will be earned back quickly. I
--- End quote ---
Not by the builder though,higher material cost,higher labour cost and longer build time all either eat into there profit,or make there houses look more expensive compared to  the competition.


--- Quote ---Avg. gas consumption of 12000kWh per year for a house
--- End quote ---

A big fat zero here. Electricity for everything. Annual  average around 4120 Kw ,or  around 100kw/M2,yea its a small flat.
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