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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)

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tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2022, 04:34:10 pm ---But it still doesn't help with preventing a grid or generating capacity overload which is what started the sub-thread. At some point people will want to have their EV charged enough to get to work or whatever destination they need to be at.

--- End quote ---

It could, because the charging power could be reduced to say 4kW instead of 7kW.

As long as it's charged by 7.30am, for instance, you don't care how it got there, just that it's done on time.

Also, the National Grid here is currently building another 400kV line from Scotland to the North of England as the current constraint on renewable energy there is the export over the HV lines. 

nctnico:

--- Quote from: tom66 on August 31, 2022, 05:12:38 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2022, 04:34:10 pm ---But it still doesn't help with preventing a grid or generating capacity overload which is what started the sub-thread. At some point people will want to have their EV charged enough to get to work or whatever destination they need to be at.

--- End quote ---

It could, because the charging power could be reduced to say 4kW instead of 7kW.

As long as it's charged by 7.30am, for instance, you don't care how it got there, just that it's done on time.

--- End quote ---
That is the problem right there, with insufficient grid capacity, it can't be guaranteed that your car will be charged to the requested level! Ergo, reducing charging power fixed or dynamically doesn't solve inherent grid capacity problems.

Zero999:

--- Quote from: Vovk_Z on August 30, 2022, 11:28:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on August 30, 2022, 10:33:03 pm ---It's a pragmatic statement. The problem for Ukraine is the there are Russian supporters in the country. Where did I say anything about surrendering? It just there's very little the West can do to help. Besides, there are plenty of other wars gong on around the world and no one seems to give a toss. It's just the harsh reality of the situation.

--- End quote ---
In general I'm tired of fighting with russian propaganda, because we are in a state of a real war here (and I'm tired of pre-war internet wars). I went from russian electronic forums (since 2014-2015) to international ones (so did many ukrainians), because of two reasons: 1) I want for russians to cook in their own shit without me. 2) I'm tired of internet wars and tired of reading a russian imperial propaganda shit.
But I'll make some exclusion for you for a some short period of time.

'It's a pragmatic statement' - it is pragmatic to be biten by russia one-by-one, country-by-country? Haven't you learned a history of begining a  WW2?

'there are Russian supporters in the country' - there are rusian supporters in almost any country. Ukraine just the closest one to the russia (so it has the most effect), but there are some russian suporters almost all over the Europe and all over the world - in Germany, France, UK, even in the USA. So what?? For example, Does USA have to give Alyaska 'back' to the russia? It could be pragmatic, otherwise a war may beging, or other 'inconvenience' and 'hard time'.

'It just there's very little the West can do to help.' - that is a classic russian 'We all are small people, and we can't do nothing'.

'Besides, there are plenty of other wars gong on around the world and no one seems to give a toss. It's just the harsh reality of the situation.' - it is like I'm in a russian forum when I reading you. You spell exact 100% percent of a russian statements, all of them. You forget to add about America bombed Baghdad and so on.

--- End quote ---
Propaganda is everywhere and I'm sick of it. I honestly don't know what to believe half the time. Over the last two and a half years, things which were initially dismissed as conspiracy theories have later on touted as plausible by the mainstream media. I accept war is a special case and I won't comment on it again, other than to say what I see in the news doesn't make sense, considering my experience of travelling to Ukraine, interacting with the people there and recent history. The best propaganda always has an element of truth, which is exaggerated out of proportion.

As far as energy is concerned. We live in a global market. Not every country shares the same values and some will be at war, yet trade must continue, otherwise poverty all over the world will increase.

tom66:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 31, 2022, 05:50:36 pm ---That is the problem right there, with insufficient grid capacity, it can't be guaranteed that your car will be charged to the requested level! Ergo, reducing charging power fixed or dynamically doesn't solve inherent grid capacity problems.

--- End quote ---

I don't follow your logic at all.

Day ahead demand is quite easy to predict.  It's based on weather (cold days = use more because inside more, electric heating/heatpumps, etc.) and live events (TV shows, football matches and so on - the so called "TV pickup" for the UK, see below) and a few other factors.  You can certainly forecast it to within a gigawatt.  Almost all electricity is sold day-ahead, this is a robust and well tested market.

The benefit of EVs here is that they form dispatchable demand - if they're plugged in at 8pm and need say 20kWh by 7.30am, then it's now up to the energy provider to sell that into the EV.  If it turns out there's more than enough, they'll probably stay at 7kW and finish in a couple of hours.  If it's a cold winter's night and turbines are spinning slowly, then they might cut it down to 3kW.  Doing that on the grid scale with say 1 million cars would allow you to control 3-7GW of load.  It's an incredible amount of control to have.  Don't forget the demand can be phased on too.  So switch 10k cars on at a time every minute or two, allowing any power plants to come up to power slowly, and reducing frequency stability needs.  If there's a sudden frequency drop - say a HV line goes down - then you can shed gigawatts at once.  As long as the issue is fixed promptly, that won't jeopardise the completion of the charge. 

Of course, it's possible to conceive a situation where e.g. an overnight power cut happens and leaves people without charge, but no system is perfect. Petrol stations can run short of fuel too.  You can plan for such an eventuality by having extra charge than the strict minimum in your battery, e.g. charge to 80% every night, rather than 40%.

AndyBeez:
Reality check: extortionate european gas prices mean the door is opening wide for the far right to embrace the lessons of european history.


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