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| "Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them) |
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| tom66:
--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:29:56 am ---This may sound weird, but Russia do not suffer from sanctions related to energy sources. Yes they sell less of gas and oil to EU, but due to price increases they profit from energy sales as never before. So we are suffering for nothing :palm:. --- End quote --- Quite possibly true (would need to do the maths) for gas, though for oil I'm not sure I agree. Oil prices are not as insanely inflated and oil demand has dropped by 50%. Also you cannot forget the other sanctions are having a strong effect on the Russian economy. GDP is projected to fall by 25%. I do wonder if Russia will however turn gas off entirely, as you say it could be quite profitable for them to keep Europe just sipping away at inflated levels. But this just highlights the ridiculousness of Nord-Stream and Germany's dependence on Russian gas. They were warned by the Baltic states and Poland that this was a terrible idea. |
| Miyuki:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on August 25, 2022, 11:21:13 am --- --- Quote from: tom66 on August 25, 2022, 11:13:06 am ---Heat pumps reduce dependency on gas, which is going to be necessary anyway. And around here they are still cheaper than gas, e.g. 40p/kWh electricity with COP=4 is 10p/kWh of heat roughly, meanwhile gas is 10p/kWh but once you include gas boiler efficiency (80-85% in good circumstances under high load and low delta-T) then the cost is greater. Though the difference is still too small to make a huge amount of financial sense to switch to heat pumps, given one would cost ca. £10,000 to install in a modern home. --- End quote --- In a moderate climate, like here, I think an air to air heat pump, which is an air conditioner can be used most of the time. --- End quote --- A modern air-source heat pump can keep COP above 3 down to -10°C ranges when need just low-temperature output for room heating and not deal with too much evaporator frosting |
| richard.cs:
The UK government had the opportunity to life-extend both reactors at Hinkley Point B by 18 months which would have enormously helped over the next two winters. EDF put a plan to the UK government in spring this year asking for money to produce the safety case and implement any upgrades needed. It was rejected, and both reactors are now shutdown for good loosing us 1.3 GW. |
| JohanH:
--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:07:27 am --- What the point from heat pumps in current situation when they are powered by electricity? With current electricity prices it sucks anyway. As for solar panels, where I live they are almost useless in winter when you need that heat pump the most. Also unless you install water type with a lot of digging, air source type performance really sucks when there is freezing temperature outside. --- End quote --- There is a big point. If gas and electricity cost the same, with a heat pump you create 3-5 times more energy than with gas (or direct resistive electrical heating). Even my old mother in law, now living in an empty house of her own, is now installing a ground source heat pump and ditching the oil boiler. And she isn't rich, living on low pension. Here, holes are usually drilled into the bedrock (our house has a 170 m hole) and it is done in one day. Drilling cost about 5000 €. The state gives some funding when switching from fossil to heat pumps. In middle and southern parts of Europe, air-to-air heat pumps work fine, I would say down to -10 °C. Of course they do work at even lower temps, but it becomes wasteful. Here in the north, ground source is best. |
| JohanH:
--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:29:56 am --- So we are suffering for nothing :palm:. --- End quote --- I prefer to suffer in solidarity with Ukraine! |
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