General > General Technical Chat
"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
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BravoV:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on September 06, 2022, 03:54:31 pm ---... look at Uniper/Germany's ... <snip> ..

--- End quote ---

Talking of Uniper, a non Russia propaganda  :-DD news site (US-CNBC) just published today ...

-> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/06/uniper-says-worst-is-still-to-come-as-russia-halts-gas-flows-to-europe.html

Quote ...

"German gas giant Uniper says the worst is still to come after Russia halts flows to Europe"

“I have said this a number of times now over this year and I’m educating also policymakers. Look, the worst is still to come,” Uniper CEO Klaus-Dieter Maubach told CNBC on Tuesday at Gastech 2022 in Milan."


The Russia sanctions launched by US & EU was deliberately, knowing the catastrophe and side effects to come in advance.

Above (highlighted) is "one of the proofs" that Western politicians were warned by the industry experts, even US Janet Yellen and almost all EU central bankers were opposed with the sanctions before it was launched in Feb, knowingly the after effects especially on the economy & energy, this was not reported in headline news at Western MSM and heavily redacted, foot noted or not reported at all at some big ones.

You do not need to be an industrial genius, that shutting down Russia oil & gas which represent big chunks of global market (hence Russia is member of OPEC+ cartel) and expecting other oil & gas producers have ready "enough spare capacities" to cover that lost is just unbelievable.

Its like expecting chip manufacturers to have spare big production capacity to serve an ad-hoc customers, just because the customer is rich and can be instantly churn out the new chips in weeks or months, its so naive.  :palm:
Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: nctnico on September 06, 2022, 04:05:05 pm ---But that is a 'Finland' problem caused by people that where put in power by democratic voting.

--- End quote ---

Yes, that is totally true, our election is very reliable in the sense of not getting manipulated in classical ways like modified tickets or whatnot. OTOH, the convention how the cabinet is built is pretty weird, so instead of mixing the top 2-3 winner parties, it's now a mix of the winner alone (17.7%), plus all the losers, ignoring the #2 (17.5%) and #3 (17.0%). (We have the convention of only building majority cabinets here which makes everything simple because every law will be automatically passed in the parliament, and I can accept that, it's one way of doing it, but it does get pretty weird when you have the "winner" (17.7%) plus all the losers to barely exceed the required 50% vote share. It's still kinda-democracy, but it puts the majority of what people actually voted for (17.5%+17.0%) in powerless opposition.)

Plus the guy who promised 100€/month to every pensioner who votes him as a PM, to gain the winning place by 0.2%, was replaced within months by The Better PM people did not vote for, who now, to be fair, has almost North Korea / Russia level support from the people (in totally free popularity measurements, and I'm again sure they are not technically manipulated), and this popularity stays even getting caught red handed in cocaine party, and likely high on cocaine in duty, during the very discussions in which she approved the 8 billion EUR Uniper packet. But hey, police officially commented that they will not investigate, but anyone who discusses this online may be prosecuted, so I'm at ****ing risk right now writing this very post, but I'm doing it anyway. This is something I don't consider a part of free democracy, but that going in the direction of Russia or North Korea.

But the media control laws put in place during early COVID are working well, and in our taxes we also have to pay for the officials who use their work time to feed made-up stories about our great PM to the foreign media. I consider it wasted effort, but it works really well, because then our media can report how our PM is popular somewhere else, and weirdly this is really important for many Finns. (See the elephant joke http://finnishnightmares.blogspot.com/2015/12/its-not-true-at-least-not-all-of-it.html)

I'm not joking. I wish I was. This is really sad time to witness.

So I hope this gives you some background about the stage on which the history biggest economical disaster of this country has been created on. And I'm sure many programmed bots will strongly disagree, but the great thing about facts is, it is totally irrelevant whether one disagrees or agrees with them. And I'm sorry how it's drifting, but it is fundamentally all connected to the gas, and Germany's decision to enable their "green shift" by utilizing cheap natural gas supplied by Russia, and keep doing that even during times it all is falling apart.
Marco:

--- Quote from: BravoV on September 06, 2022, 04:17:10 pm ---You do not need to be an industrial genius, that shutting down Russia oil & gas which represent big chunks of global market (hence Russia is member of OPEC+ cartel) and expecting other oil & gas producers have ready "enough spare capacities" to cover that lost is just unbelievable.

--- End quote ---

Which is why they didn't, neither gas nor oil was significantly sanctioned. Although I suspect oil sanctions are coming sooner than later at this point, with secondary sanction muscle from the US (even with Pooh screaming). No one expected the war to last this long. It's the current sanctions combined with the arm shipments and Russia's incompetence in winning this war which led to this total shitshow, which despite dollars in the bank is going to drag Russia down too. The sanctions as they were wouldn't have driven Putin into a corner enough to cut off gas, if he had won the war ... but he didn't so dead Russians and destroyed equipment pile up and Putin has to do something. Everyone is pot committed to a situation they did not anticipate, Ukraine fighting so steadfastly and Russian military being incapable of taking Kiev.

For better or worse three other former Russified nations with lots of Russian speakers which Russia feels are being discriminated against, which was the closest they came to a casus belli for the Ukraine war, are already part of NATO and the EU. Neutrality was never an option.
JohanH:
Then we all deserve what is coming, because making Europe dependent on Russia is the most utterly mindless stupidest thing ever. Merkel & Co will go to history as the most failed example of energy policy makers ever. And politicians in other countries who pretend they didn't see this, must bear consequences. Finnish governments after 2014 have been so blind. Now the current government have made the only rational decisions and if we get into NATO, I think other policies vis-à-vis Russia won't be as stupid in the future (of course easy to say now when all cards are on the table).

I don't care anymore, Ukraine is burning, freezing, whatever, so it's our turn to freeze soon. The whole EU will and must bear the consequences collectively and Germany can pay off the failures in the next fifty years. Sorry Brits, I don't think you can escape, you are still too tied up and dependent on EU and you will also suffer.
BravoV:
Curious how many Brits reading this thread will join this movement ? Or this is just a noise in UK and its over-blown up by the media ?

-> https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/06/uk-energy-bill-boycott-dont-pay-gains-traction-truss-to-offer-relief.html

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