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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
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Marco:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 06, 2022, 07:27:49 pm ---All wars in history have always been all  about energy actually, in the general sense (access to resources and territory, that's ultimately "energy" we get from that.)

--- End quote ---

Nah that's just slightly more pretentious conspiracy thinking. History for the most part gets it right, wars get started over the silliest shit. It might be comforting to think there are cabals with Real Politik reasons hidden below the surface and singular official leaders of major countries can't just have that much power to act purely on ego and ideology, but there really aren't and they really do.

Putin's article ”On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians“ really does completely explain what the war is about, it's not about natural or even human resources (additional Russians working inside the Russian economy proper is far more essential to Russia than some piddly little gas reserves or more land). Which is why it's so dangerous, because it applies to a lot of other Russified nations of the former Russian empire, among which the Baltics.
Zero999:

--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on September 06, 2022, 07:27:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on September 06, 2022, 06:48:10 pm ---(...)
Of course war is always decorated with some rationalization (weapons of mass destruction! denazification!), but modern wars are really all about energy, and specifically ---

--- End quote ---

All wars in history have always been all  about energy actually, in the general sense (access to resources and territory, that's ultimately "energy" we get from that.)

--- End quote ---
Resources such as energy, land and food are catalysts for conflict but they're not the only ones. Ethnicity is a big cause of war WW2 was a classic example. Religion can also trigger war, although it's debatable whether it's religion in itself which is responsible, or it's used as a justification.


--- Quote from: Marco on September 06, 2022, 07:11:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on September 06, 2022, 06:48:10 pm ---Do you think it is just a coincidence that there are significant natural gas resources in Eastern Ukraine, and Russia is just, by coincidence, denazifying or being "uncivilized" or whatever crap over there? Really?

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Russia's gas reserves dwarf Ukraine's. The cost in lives, man power and economic efficiency isn't remotely worth it. Though I don't think Putin planned to bury quite this many Russians, but he's pot committed too.
--- End quote ---
The are lots of Russians in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. The war is about ethnicity, not energy.

Relying on others for essential resources. Is a bad thing. We need to work both on establishing free trade, putting our differences aside, was well as becoming more self-sufficient.
magic:
For centuries, south-eastern Ukraine was a wilderness made unlivable by regular looting and slave hunts by various nomads and peripheral puppets of the Ottoman empire. Ukrainians were the first civilized people to set their foot there, Russians were the first to end the looting and actually civilize the region. It's been a never ending conflict ever since. Natural resources surely play a role, but likely aren't worth it alone and AFAIK it's mostly coal and iron, not gas. I see no reason to disbelieve Putin when he says that strategic military considerations were the primary trigger of the current war.

Anyone who thinks that Putin is unpopular in Russia should read wraper's post. That's what the collapse of the commie block looked like and people weren't happy about many things that happened then and many aren't still. Most everything originally nationalized by the commies (i.e., just about everything) was stolen by corrupt officials and sold for bribes to Western "investors", who subsequently shut down whole companies because they weren't all that efficient and it was the time of the great outsourcing to China anyway.
Nusa:
It works both ways. Europe will have to make do with shutting down industries and rationing energy to citizens until they build up sufficient infrastructure to be dependant on imports from other countries. You think their newfound dependance on LNG from the USA is the best solution? Same problem, different country.

Similarly, Russia is learning to survive without western technology, but they have enough for the short term. They'll be reviving local development and getting stuff from China and Iran. But they've no shortage of energy, so nobody is going to be cold or shut down this winter for that reason. Ditto food production and many other resources.

We'll not get into how dependant the USA currently is on China as a trade partner...the current effort to revive chip production in the USA is very telling.
themadhippy:

--- Quote --- Russia is learning to survive without western technology,
--- End quote ---
surely you mean relearn,as they did during the cold war
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