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"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)

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wraper:

--- Quote from: JohanH on August 25, 2022, 11:37:59 am ---
--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:07:27 am ---
What the point from heat pumps in current situation when they are powered by electricity? With current electricity prices it sucks anyway. As for solar panels, where I live they are almost useless in winter when you need that heat pump the most. Also unless you install water type with a lot of digging, air source type performance really sucks when there is freezing temperature outside.

--- End quote ---

There is a big point. If gas and electricity cost the same, with a heat pump you create 3-5 times more energy than with gas (or direct resistive electrical heating). Even my old mother in law, now living in an empty house of her own, is now installing a ground source heat pump and ditching the oil boiler. And she isn't rich, living on low pension. Here, holes are usually drilled into the bedrock (our house has a 170 m hole) and it is done in one day. Drilling cost about 5000 €. The state gives some funding when switching from fossil to heat pumps.

In middle and southern parts of Europe, air-to-air heat pumps work fine, I would say down to -10 °C. Of course they do work at even lower temps, but it becomes wasteful. Here in the north, ground source is best.

--- End quote ---
The problem is that gas is still significantly cheaper and a lot of electricity is generated from gas. And electricity will become even more expensive if demand increases. Not to say investment you need to make for the heating system replacement.

madires:

--- Quote from: JohanH on August 25, 2022, 10:48:58 am ---Heat pumps, heat pumps.

And heat pumps.

--- End quote ---

In many cases yes, but not in all. If your central heating needs a high flow temperature simply replacing the gas/oil furnace with a heat pump doesn't work (you have to invest much more to 'upgrade' your house). Doesn't work for historic buildings (over here) and large buildings are a challenge also. And with heat pumps and EVs we nead to generate at least two times more electric power than we currently do.

wraper:

--- Quote from: JohanH on August 25, 2022, 11:39:11 am ---
--- Quote from: wraper on August 25, 2022, 11:29:56 am --- So we are suffering for nothing  :palm:.

--- End quote ---

I prefer to suffer in solidarity with Ukraine!

--- End quote ---
If I'm going to suffer for some purpose, at least I expect some result from it. I don't see and don't expect any as far as things are going.

tautech:

--- Quote from: richard.cs on August 25, 2022, 11:37:50 am ---The UK government had the opportunity to life-extend both reactors at Hinkley Point B by 18 months which would have enormously helped over the next two winters. EDF put a plan to the UK government in spring this year asking for money to produce the safety case and implement any upgrades needed. It was rejected, and both reactors are now shutdown for good loosing us 1.3 GW.

--- End quote ---
Which is only postponing the real hard decisions of what provides each country’s energy solution.
Some seem to think even in the 21st century we should spend our evenings in candlelight !

nctnico:

--- Quote from: tautech on August 25, 2022, 11:27:45 am ---The other option is to tear up the Paris accord and get back to exploring for fossil fuels and reopen coal mines and the like.

--- End quote ---
No. Not because of CO2 but because burning coal causes massive amounts of SO2 and NOx pollution which in turn makes people sick. Unless ofcourse you want to make sure your population doesn't get too old (like they seem to want in China).

Nuclear is the best option for now.

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