General > General Technical Chat
"Gas Armageddon": Energy/electricity prices in EU/UK (and how to deal with them)
Marco:
--- Quote from: RoGeorge on September 08, 2022, 01:43:18 pm ---I think what we are seeing now in Ukraine is the followup of foreign influences over Ukraine from the last decade, and not just a caprice of Russia this spring.
--- End quote ---
Ukraine saw what the EU did for Poland and the Baltics on one side and what Russia does for its people on the other ... much like the Trump election, foreign influence games are hopelessly overstated in importance.
Revolutions and civil wars are a messy business, meh. The mess in Donbass would have been less messy if they had simply been overrun without Putin's military aid and irregular soldiers. Which is ultimately why Putin had to invade, he felt pot committed to supporting Russian speakers in Donbass but simply giving weapons and planting irregulars would have stopped working sooner or later.
james_s:
--- Quote from: tom66 on September 08, 2022, 01:30:26 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on September 08, 2022, 11:14:32 am ---Energy rationing is easy to achieve by controlling gas stations, and turning off mains power at selected times. However, I wonder what they can do with gas, which seems to be the thing with the biggest supply problem? Don't they need careful procedures to prevent explosions when turning the public gas supply off and on? I'm not sure. I've never seen the flow of gas stop since it was first turned on.
--- End quote ---
I wonder if you reduce the gas pressure to domestic properties, it may limit the rate at which gas appliances can use gas. Boilers will not be able to burn as much gas, and won't produce as much heat. However, I think the issue is that this would lead to varying pressure as more appliances turn on, which could create some issues.
--- End quote ---
That may work for a stove (hob) but something like a boiler or furnace will have an internal regulator. I've installed a handful of gas forced air furnaces and an important part of installation is measuring the gas pressure at the inlet and outlet of the gas valve and adjusting the pressure to within a specific range then clocking the meter to check the flow. If the pressure is too high it can damage the heat exchangers by overheating and prevent condensing in the secondary exchanger. If it's too low you can have condensation in the primary exchanger which will then rapidly corrode. I would not operate an appliance if the incoming gas pressure was not within spec.
edpgc:
--- Quote from: BravoV on September 08, 2022, 02:42:09 pm ---Watch how EU officials (NOT NATO) are now talking like NATO leaders, like talking to train troops, increasing military budget, send weapons to Ukraine and etc, the line dividing between EU and NATO is becoming so blur, don't you agree ? >:D
--- End quote ---
I don't really understand this, NATO is a collection of countries, there isn't some sort para-leadership - they are the same people?
The problem with Orban is his determination to steam-roller through European unity, a divided europe is far more malleable to external factors, difference between being in the driving seat, or just along for the ride.
As for the EU being in the pockets of the USA, sure to some degree, but it's hard to align the reality of the last 20 years in the EU with the wishes of the White House.
edpgc:
--- Quote from: coppice on September 08, 2022, 11:14:32 am ---However, I wonder what they can do with gas, which seems to be the thing with the biggest supply problem? Don't they need careful procedures to prevent explosions when turning the public gas supply off and on? I'm not sure. I've never seen the flow of gas stop since it was first turned on.
--- End quote ---
Yes, you never turn off domestic gas supplies as there's a risk of problems (explosions) upon restoring supply. However if you turn off electricity to an area you will find that gas consumption reduces dramatically - which is convenient.
bdunham7:
--- Quote from: tom66 on September 08, 2022, 01:30:26 pm ---I wonder if you reduce the gas pressure to domestic properties, it may limit the rate at which gas appliances can use gas. Boilers will not be able to burn as much gas, and won't produce as much heat. However, I think the issue is that this would lead to varying pressure as more appliances turn on, which could create some issues.
--- End quote ---
Gas distribution systems here all have local (typically per-user/per-meter) pressure regulators that reduce the gas to the very low ~0.25 bar that the appliances need. The distribution system is at much higher pressure and reducing that won't affect the pressure at the point of use.
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